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Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

cs.jhu.edu

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Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#161

Post by jisaacstone »

army wrote: post #120
piqufoh wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would this be unrelated to PRISM? As this guy doesn't know what he's accused of, and we have no idea what PRISM is looking for, assuming they're unrelated is as fallacious as assuming they are related.

This sort of stuff has been happening forever. I'm sure if you found some people who were international students in the 80s or 90s they would have similar stories about capriciousness with regards to student visas. The rules basically say that embassy official should only give out student visas if they are confident that the student meets the terms of the visa, particularly that they have no intent to overstay or per…

Yes and it explicitly says that visa applicants are guilty until proven innocent.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#162

Post by betterunix »

TylerE wrote: post #19
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #12

I wonder if this is one of those vague "security" problems. It seems like if people get denied for normal stuff (overstaying, violating their visas, etc) they're told and can at least fight it a little. But when you get a black mark against you it seems like you get stuck in an administrative blackhole where nobody is authorised to tell you WHY or they themselves don't know. It was the same way with the no-fly list f…

It's actually good security practice. If the terrorist's find out they got flagged because of X, now they know not to do X any more.

It also has the unfortunate side effect of leaving innocent people completely confused when they get flagged, because they have no idea what they did wrong nor any way to defend themselves. America is not supposed to be a country where people are punished for mysterious reasons, not even foreigners.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#163

Post by meepmorp »

fnbr wrote: post #123
Spearchucker wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...the people fighting an oppressive government were labelled as terrorist... Not surprising at all. Dig into the history of the ANC a little. Specifically, look for Umkhonto we Sizwe after the Sharpeville massacre in 1960. While in no way [edit] trivialising the abhorrent and often vicious apartheid regime of the time, the ANC (and Mandela) haven't exactly been angles, either.

Hey, just an FYI, to denigrate means "to criticize," so although I understood what you meant, you might want to reword that (not to be pedantic, I just know that if I misused a word, I'd want someone to tell me).

> Hey, just an FYI, to denigrate means "to criticize"

No, to denigrate means to attack the reputation or importance of another, usually in an unfair manner. It's more negative than mere criticism.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#164

Post by glimmung »

Zircom wrote: post #157
Spearchucker wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...the people fighting an oppressive government were labelled as terrorist... Not surprising at all. Dig into the history of the ANC a little. Specifically, look for Umkhonto we Sizwe after the Sharpeville massacre in 1960. While in no way [edit] trivialising the abhorrent and often vicious apartheid regime of the time, the ANC (and Mandela) haven't exactly been angles, either.

>the ANC (and Mandela) haven't exactly been angles, either. On the contrary, one could say they were a bit... acute .

Now you're just being obtuse...

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#165

Post by betterunix »

Mithaldu wrote: post #55

The one thing I'm taking home from that letter is this: the embassy called him back to say that they had found the problem. They said that if he came in, they would fix it. Instead of fixing it, they stamped CANCELED across his student visa without explaining what was wrong, and refused to answer any questions as to why. In short: The american embassy has no compunctions whatsoever to lie to citizens of other countri…

Nothing special here -- law enforcement agencies in the USA are allowed to lie to people like this as well. There is a reason defense attorneys here keep telling people that if they are ever arrested they should say nothing until a lawyer is present. Somewhere on Youtube there is a video where a former cop describes how he once told some kid that he should write an apology letter to the family he stole from, and the cop would deliver it; that "apology letter" was presented as evidence in court, as a confession.

Trickery is a matter of course for the US government, at basically every level.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#166

Post by betterunix »

robomartin wrote: post #78
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #12

I wonder if this is one of those vague "security" problems. It seems like if people get denied for normal stuff (overstaying, violating their visas, etc) they're told and can at least fight it a little. But when you get a black mark against you it seems like you get stuck in an administrative blackhole where nobody is authorised to tell you WHY or they themselves don't know. It was the same way with the no-fly list f…

> Americans don't want people visiting, working, or studying on their shores. This is utterly false and unfair. Please don't lump the entire US population with a few ignorant morons who have not seen the world five miles outside their home town. A quick look at our universities is proof enough that what you are saying is incorrect. The last time I visited MIT it almost felt like I was outside the US.

At the same time, though, foreigners are discouraged from studying certain topics. The security engineering group at my school lost a student a few years ago, because he was Chinese and the US government would not allow him to reenter the country due to his thesis topic (computer security). It took an assurance from the school that he would not be permitted to do any further work with his adviser and that he would switch research topics for him to be permitted entry to this country.

The incredible stupidity here is that there is no classified research done by that group, nor by my own research group (cryptography). Everything is published in publicly available conferences and journals.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#167

Post by rgbrenner »

ankitml wrote: post #121
nostromo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-bo...

this data is not for last 10 years. US was open.

the us data is from 2009. Pretty sure that's less than 10 years.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#169

Post by mbreese »

devon_air wrote: post #4

I can understand what he's feeling as i'm in a very similar situation. I was offered a job by a San Francisco-based startup in January. I applied for a visa at the local US embassy, the interview went fine and the consular officer said she was happy to approve it but that I had been flagged for an additional background check which should take about two weeks. Five months later and i'm still stuck in "Administrative P…

There's a big difference between work visas and tourist visas, to you should expect it to take significantly more time. The fact that the company is a startup probably doesn't help either, since they may not have been around very long.

I know that doesn't help, but visa issues are always complicated and there is always risk involved.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#170

Post by microarchitect »

GauntletWizard wrote: post #147
microarchitect wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's this about a student visa? A student visa is a completely legal way of entering the US. PS. Post the Boston bombings the immigration officials at the port of entry are required to verify valid student status before letting students (F1 visa holders) into the US. This means the chances of people entering the country illegally through a student visa are slim to none.

It's fairly common to come in on a "Student" visa to study at a community college or take night courses while also holding a full-time job. It's also common to skip the facade entirely - Use visa to gain entry, take job on forged credentials, stay past expiration. The student visa does allow the holder to work, but it is intended to be secondary to the education, and history has shown that it is not.

This is not as easy you make it sound. First, when entering the US, the immigration officials verify whether student status is valid using the SEVIS database. Second, all changes to student status must be reported to the SEVIS database by the school. If the school finds out that a student is doing unauthorized work, or if they find that the student's academic progress is unsatisfactory (likely if they are working full-time) they are required to terminate student status and report this to SEVIS.

The generic issue of using forged credentials to get an unauthorized job is applicable to any visa. And if I wanted to overstay my visa, it would be dumb of me to choose a visa that was as carefully tracked and monitored as as the F1 visa.

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