Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

cs.jhu.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 219 posts

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#151

Post by kd0amg »

rayiner wrote: post #111
mikeash wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that there is no due process for these things. You're always playing a bit of a lottery whenever you interact with, well, just about anything. But when domestic police screw up (or not!) and you get in trouble, there's at least a process in place that tries to smooth things out. It's still not a guarantee, but if you didn't actually do anything wrong, the process makes a decent stab at ensuring that fa…

The problem with foreigners having rights is that it goes against very deep principles in the western tradition. If sovereignty means anything, it means the inherent power to create and enforce borders. Its like one of the defining charecteristics of a biological cell: the establishment of an "inside" and an "outside." Subjecting the inherent power of a sovereign entity to control access through its borders to judici…

What subset of the federal government is considered the sovereign entity here?

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#152

Post by robomartin »

rayiner wrote: post #118
dyladan wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo, Michigan the story is pretty similar, and we aren't exactly the best known college worldwide.

Universities in general are far to the left of mainstream on these issues.

Except universities don't set immigration policy. The claim by the post I responded to was, to boil it down, that Americans don't want immigration. Universities are just on easy data point to reach for.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#153

Post by rbehrends »

genwin wrote: post #80
xanmas wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PhD students, especially in the sciences, don't pay tuition.

Nice to know my taxes pay for the lofty education of people who may have no intention of working in my country.

If you don't want them, other countries will be more than happy to take those unwanted Ph.D. students off your hands.

Ph.D. students don't pay tuition because the remuneration they get for their work is part tuition waivers, part money. If they do not work for the university and are not eligible for tuition waivers, they have to pay tuition instead (both foreigners and US Americans).

In practice, they are basically inexpensive (for their qualifications) temporary employees in teaching and research; what they get out of it is a degree.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#154

Post by Spearchucker »

fnbr wrote: post #123
Spearchucker wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...the people fighting an oppressive government were labelled as terrorist... Not surprising at all. Dig into the history of the ANC a little. Specifically, look for Umkhonto we Sizwe after the Sharpeville massacre in 1960. While in no way [edit] trivialising the abhorrent and often vicious apartheid regime of the time, the ANC (and Mandela) haven't exactly been angles, either.

Hey, just an FYI, to denigrate means "to criticize," so although I understood what you meant, you might want to reword that (not to be pedantic, I just know that if I misused a word, I'd want someone to tell me).

Thanks.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#155

Post by Dylan16807 »

astrodust wrote: post #131
genwin wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then let MIT pay for that, not me, when there's no likelihood the student will be paying me back in the form of US taxes. The research leads to patents that MIT gets compensated for, not me. My taxes are likely being wasted here, working against the society I support. It doesn't matter if it's only a dime of mine since all waste is bad and adds up to a lot. No I'm not going to take it up with my representative, falli…

So should we be writing checks to Germany when a German-educated person comes over to the US and starts a business? After all, Germany should be compensated for their loss, right? If an American chooses to move to Singapore to work for an international bank, then maybe they should be forced to pay back the subsidy on their education, right? Here's the thing: Education is not a waste of money. It costs almost nothing…

Don't the big sports programs pay for themselves?

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#156

Post by daraul »

astrodust wrote: post #87
genwin wrote: post #75

My taxes pay for the expensive university education of foreigners, without guarantee they can stay? Great.

Many, if not most developed countries do this. Don't be such a jackass. The idea is that these students enrich the university, and there's a chance they'll stay on as professors. Billions are spent chasing foreign students that can throw a football and you chose to save your rage for this?

I interpreted his rage as being directed toward the "without any guarantee they can stay?" part of the statement.

It IS quite wasteful that he was given this opportunity, and then thrown out before he even had the chance to complete his education. Absent any real reasoning (which we're likely to never see) it's tremendously irresponsible.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#157

Post by Zircom »

Spearchucker wrote: post #77
nashequilibrium wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason Nelson Mandela and the whole ANC party who fought apartheid were on the no fly list is because they were labelled as a terrorist group. Nobody bothered to adjust this until a couple of embarrassing moments like this. It is kind of funny that the apartheid government were never denied entry to any country, yet the people fighting an oppressive government were labelled as terrorist. It is also surprising tha…

...the people fighting an oppressive government were labelled as terrorist... Not surprising at all. Dig into the history of the ANC a little. Specifically, look for Umkhonto we Sizwe after the Sharpeville massacre in 1960. While in no way [edit] trivialising the abhorrent and often vicious apartheid regime of the time, the ANC (and Mandela) haven't exactly been angles, either.

>the ANC (and Mandela) haven't exactly been angles, either.

On the contrary, one could say they were a bit... acute.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#158

Post by avaku »

outworlder wrote: post #31

Well, this "problem" with sort out itself, eventually. Taking the ridiculous border controls, the economic situation, disregard of human rights (specially for foreigners), it means that the US is rapidly becoming an unattractive place to work, study and even go on vacation. Before long, you won't have many people trying to get in. Guess where the entrepreneurs, scientists and highly skilled workers will go? Hint: not…

That's why I left US for the UK back in 2006. (Even though UK now is not better than US, at the time they were able to recognise the benefits of letting highly skilled people in).

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#159

Post by yitchelle »

robomartin wrote: post #78
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #12

I wonder if this is one of those vague "security" problems. It seems like if people get denied for normal stuff (overstaying, violating their visas, etc) they're told and can at least fight it a little. But when you get a black mark against you it seems like you get stuck in an administrative blackhole where nobody is authorised to tell you WHY or they themselves don't know. It was the same way with the no-fly list f…

> Americans don't want people visiting, working, or studying on their shores. This is utterly false and unfair. Please don't lump the entire US population with a few ignorant morons who have not seen the world five miles outside their home town. A quick look at our universities is proof enough that what you are saying is incorrect. The last time I visited MIT it almost felt like I was outside the US.

Unfortunately, the "few ignorant morons" are usually in significant position of influence that can have wide spread impacts. It is even worse when these "morons" starts to become paranoid and developed a knee jerking reaction to their paranoia.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#160

Post by peterwwillis »

genwin wrote: post #80
xanmas wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

PhD students, especially in the sciences, don't pay tuition.

Nice to know my taxes pay for the lofty education of people who may have no intention of working in my country.

Those two things have nothing to do with one another.

First of all, there aren't enough American students qualified to do the research your taxes are paying for. They have to use foreign students or it would never get done.

Second, you're angry that they're not working here, but if they were working here, you'd be angry they're taking our jobs.

You're angry at the wrong people. You should be angry at American students and teachers for being too stupid to do the research jobs your taxes are paying for, and for being too stupid to get "work" in the field.

Post reply on HN