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Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

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Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#131

Post by astrodust »

genwin wrote: post #109
astrodust wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like you're footing the bill for all foreign students single-handedly. There's this thing called society. You're part of it. If you think your taxes are being "wasted" on foreign students, as if those freeloaders are being forced on institutions like MIT by the government, take it up with your representative or senator. The academic world is bigger than the US. It might shock you but there are some very capa…

Then let MIT pay for that, not me, when there's no likelihood the student will be paying me back in the form of US taxes. The research leads to patents that MIT gets compensated for, not me. My taxes are likely being wasted here, working against the society I support. It doesn't matter if it's only a dime of mine since all waste is bad and adds up to a lot. No I'm not going to take it up with my representative, falli…

So should we be writing checks to Germany when a German-educated person comes over to the US and starts a business? After all, Germany should be compensated for their loss, right?

If an American chooses to move to Singapore to work for an international bank, then maybe they should be forced to pay back the subsidy on their education, right?

Here's the thing: Education is not a waste of money. It costs almost nothing to host a Ph.D. student, there just aren't that many of them. It would take tens of thousands of Ph.D. students to add up to the cost of a single F-35 fighter jet.

Investments aren't about a guaranteed return, they're all about probabilities. I'm pretty sure that MIT's investment in graduate students, including the small number of guest foreign students, pays enormous dividends in terms of research and prestige.

Also if you can name one Ph.D. student that's been given a signing bonus that's anywhere near the kind of money thrown at football players, please do. If you want to know where money's being wasted, it's on lavish stadiums, enormous scholarships, and all the associated pageantry.

Don't think you're the only "taxpayer". Virtually everyone who's ever set foot in the United States is a taxpayer in some form. I know I've paid my fair share of sales taxes just visiting.

If you want to cut funding to MIT so that it becomes a shell of what it is today, you're entitled to that opinion. Just don't complain if that happens and over time the US becomes completely uncompetitive, full of people with obsolete or inadequate education, reduced to having to import talent wholesale like Dubai.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#132

Post by ankitml »

Zigurd wrote: post #68
davidw wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think HN is seriously at risk of having jumped the shark for good. This NSA thing blew the lid off - the front page is completely full of articles about politics, with more each day about all kinds of different things. I suppose things may settle down again - they have after other big events, but... I worry, I worry. (And for the record, for those who conflate not wanting to see every article about this with not ca…

The PRISM scandal remains a threat to US tech businesses. Long after it fades from HN, it will be a drag on growth. Since government credibility will be hard to repair, a big part of the solution is likely going to be stronger technical measures against any kind of snooping.

Not only government's credibility. Credibility of all those companies who lied to us that our data is safe. Apple, FB google and likes

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#133

Post by rossjudson »

VLM wrote: post #40
monsterix wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but I find these single cases to be ridiculous, because there are competent individuals in government who oft do what they're supposed to, even if the whole government mechanism appears corrupt and broken. Most likely there was a legitimate reason, and of course we only have one side of the story here, by an associate professor and his PhD student. You'll understand only when you face it. What legitimate reasons ar…

"What legitimate reasons are you applying to justify treatment of any or every person on the planet as potential threat" Because they are? Approximately zero risk, true, but slightly over zero. Its a pretty simple straightforward game theory problem. Whats the total aggregate sum of the trouble you'll get into by letting 1 out of 100 million terrorist thru, vs simply stamping "denied national security" on any random…

You are completely ignoring the negative effects of these decisions to exclude. Those decisions do not happen in a vacuum. Every one of them has an associated "negative" effect that also accumulates.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#134

Post by kaoD »

robomartin wrote: post #127
nostromo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-bo...

Nothing like real data. The US has over three times more immigrants than any other country. I should also note it is my belief --my belief-- that most people in the US, outside of certain groups, are for LEGAL immigration. Don't come here illegally or with a student visa and then cry foul if not welcomed. EDIT: the reference to student visas is about using them illegally to get in and then stay. It is NOT about not a…

> The US has over three times more immigrants than any other country.

Which is completely irrelevant because the US is hundreds of times larger than many countries.

That's why we use percentages.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#135

Post by ankitml »

OldSchool wrote: post #50

He sounds like a brilliant student. However does anyone find it the least bit noteworthy that the US government is paying for foreign citizens' tuition and stipends while many of its own citizens are forced to go deeply in debt?

arent the applications supposed to be judged on merit?

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#136

Post by peterwwillis »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #12

I wonder if this is one of those vague "security" problems. It seems like if people get denied for normal stuff (overstaying, violating their visas, etc) they're told and can at least fight it a little. But when you get a black mark against you it seems like you get stuck in an administrative blackhole where nobody is authorised to tell you WHY or they themselves don't know. It was the same way with the no-fly list f…

Every year I meet more expats working or studying here from 6 months to several years in order to build skills to take back home. Since I live close to JHU, most of them are scientists.

But yes, an economic depression causes political pressure on immigrants due to the lack of work/school for native citizens.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#137

Post by microarchitect »

robomartin wrote: post #127
nostromo wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-bo...

Nothing like real data. The US has over three times more immigrants than any other country. I should also note it is my belief --my belief-- that most people in the US, outside of certain groups, are for LEGAL immigration. Don't come here illegally or with a student visa and then cry foul if not welcomed. EDIT: the reference to student visas is about using them illegally to get in and then stay. It is NOT about not a…

What's this about a student visa?

A student visa is a completely legal way of entering the US.

PS. Post the Boston bombings the immigration officials at the port of entry are required to verify valid student status before letting students (F1 visa holders) into the US. This means the chances of people entering the country illegally through a student visa are slim to none.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#138

Post by paganel »

davidw wrote: post #15
weego wrote: post #10

Are we going to trawl up and link every single case of someone being denied re-entry to the US? It's just getting rather tedious. Though as the constant karma farming off similarly tedious and usually poorly researched and written blog posts of the last week continues unabated perhaps I am in a minority of readers who gets their news from decent sources and likes to come to HN for interesting technical articles.

I think HN is seriously at risk of having jumped the shark for good. This NSA thing blew the lid off - the front page is completely full of articles about politics, with more each day about all kinds of different things. I suppose things may settle down again - they have after other big events, but... I worry, I worry. (And for the record, for those who conflate not wanting to see every article about this with not ca…

> I think HN is seriously at risk of having jumped the shark for good. This NSA thing blew the lid off - the front page is completely full of articles about politics, with more each day about all kinds of different things.

I share your caution, because I remember that for better or worse this is how reddit started changing back in the day (late 2007 - 2008), by focusing on politics (and then there came the memes and all that). But, one can sort of feel that all this is way more technology- and consequently HN-related than what Obama or Hillary Clinton had to say back in the day.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#139

Post by ritchiea »

rayiner wrote: post #107
robomartin wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans don't want people visiting, working, or studying on their shores. This is utterly false and unfair. Please don't lump the entire US population with a few ignorant morons who have not seen the world five miles outside their home town. A quick look at our universities is proof enough that what you are saying is incorrect. The last time I visited MIT it almost felt like I was outside the US.

Cambridge isn't exactly representative, either of americans' attitudes towards immigration nor of the immigrants themselves.

Obviously. The thing about America right now is that there's no one city or even state that is representative of the country. The country is experiencing a cultural and political deadlock which can sort of be generalized to a divide between the coasts and the south. If you live in Cambridge or SV or NYC you get angered by issues presented in the OP, why shouldn't this brilliant student be allowed into the country? That's not my America.

Then immediately someone responds that where we live is not representative of America. Though let me remind you, if you believe the "real" America is the people in Alabama or the bureaucrats creating asinine policies that keep out brilliant foreign students, think about how much worse things would be without those of us in places like Cambridge to actually speak up and vote for candidates like Elizabeth Warren and say we don't like the way the other side is trying to run the country.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#140

Post by reccles »

Having been through the system I can probably guess what he did wrong. F1 status requires that you show no intent to stay. If he had declared that Microsoft was sponsoring an H1B prior to re-entry and we as attempting to enter with a F1, then he broke the F1 rules.

If you break any rules you are pretty much SOL.

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