Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

cs.jhu.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 219 posts

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#111

Post by rayiner »

mikeash wrote: post #9
lmgftp wrote: post #2

Their decision was probably based in some way (assuming it's based on available information, which is admittedly risky) in his marriage to a foreign national while expressing interest in moving to the states, and the embassy's reluctance to chance him violating his visa permissions and in some way moving here with his wife in a permanent resident-alien w/o a visa type manner. Not claiming to know anything special, bu…

The problem is that there is no due process for these things. You're always playing a bit of a lottery whenever you interact with, well, just about anything. But when domestic police screw up (or not!) and you get in trouble, there's at least a process in place that tries to smooth things out. It's still not a guarantee, but if you didn't actually do anything wrong, the process makes a decent stab at ensuring that fa…

The problem with foreigners having rights is that it goes against very deep principles in the western tradition. If sovereignty means anything, it means the inherent power to create and enforce borders. Its like one of the defining charecteristics of a biological cell: the establishment of an "inside" and an "outside." Subjecting the inherent power of a sovereign entity to control access through its borders to judicial review upsets that dynamic.

Should the US treat visitors with respect and make the process of entering and leaving predictable and transparent? Yes. But saying foreigners have due process rights goes beyond should into must. And that is incompatible with our traditional views of sovereignty.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#112

Post by JOnAgain »

piqufoh wrote: post #61
untog wrote: post #43

As an immigrant in the US, watching HN lately has been enlightening. Absolutely none of this is new- and it's also almost entirely unrelated to PRISM. Despite the fact that tech companies have been struggling with insane visa rules for years, it's only now that we start posting about individual injustices, now that we can file it under the banner of "government bad" ?

Why would this be unrelated to PRISM? As this guy doesn't know what he's accused of, and we have no idea what PRISM is looking for, assuming they're unrelated is as fallacious as assuming they are related.

The kind of thing that this article described happened all the time before anyone knew about prism. It just never got much publicity.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#113

Post by nostromo »

robomartin wrote: post #78
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #12

I wonder if this is one of those vague "security" problems. It seems like if people get denied for normal stuff (overstaying, violating their visas, etc) they're told and can at least fight it a little. But when you get a black mark against you it seems like you get stuck in an administrative blackhole where nobody is authorised to tell you WHY or they themselves don't know. It was the same way with the no-fly list f…

> Americans don't want people visiting, working, or studying on their shores. This is utterly false and unfair. Please don't lump the entire US population with a few ignorant morons who have not seen the world five miles outside their home town. A quick look at our universities is proof enough that what you are saying is incorrect. The last time I visited MIT it almost felt like I was outside the US.

Case in point: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_foreign-bo...

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#114

Post by Vivtek »

robomartin wrote: post #78
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #12

I wonder if this is one of those vague "security" problems. It seems like if people get denied for normal stuff (overstaying, violating their visas, etc) they're told and can at least fight it a little. But when you get a black mark against you it seems like you get stuck in an administrative blackhole where nobody is authorised to tell you WHY or they themselves don't know. It was the same way with the no-fly list f…

> Americans don't want people visiting, working, or studying on their shores. This is utterly false and unfair. Please don't lump the entire US population with a few ignorant morons who have not seen the world five miles outside their home town. A quick look at our universities is proof enough that what you are saying is incorrect. The last time I visited MIT it almost felt like I was outside the US.

Accompany one of them for an immigration hearing sometime. You'll realize how wrong you are.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#115

Post by dyladan »

rayiner wrote: post #107
robomartin wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Americans don't want people visiting, working, or studying on their shores. This is utterly false and unfair. Please don't lump the entire US population with a few ignorant morons who have not seen the world five miles outside their home town. A quick look at our universities is proof enough that what you are saying is incorrect. The last time I visited MIT it almost felt like I was outside the US.

Cambridge isn't exactly representative, either of americans' attitudes towards immigration nor of the immigrants themselves.

At Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo, Michigan the story is pretty similar, and we aren't exactly the best known college worldwide.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#116

Post by maguirre »

This article strikes home for me. I came to the US to go to college, while here I got great grades, a job and eventually married a US Citizen and obtained citizenship myself. Due to the fact that I followed the rules My sister (Medical Doctor in our country of origin) would get harassed and accused of wanting to stay ("like your brother" they would say) every time she came to visit me (For the record she has never overstayed her visas). Eventually when it was time to renew her tourist visa she was denied and told to never set a foot at the US embassy again.

Quite sad really but there is no winning against USCIS.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#117

Post by shabble »

yardie wrote: post #70
lanaius wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been told by other foreign graduate students that getting married in another country (possibly even married at all) violates that student visa agreements. One girl is French and marrying an American, she was told that if she goes to France to have a wedding ceremony that she would not be allowed back in to America. This sounds exactly like what happened to this student. It's shameful and bizarre, but it appear…

> marrying an American, she was told that if she goes to France to have a wedding ceremony that she would not be allowed back in to America. My cursory reading of the USCIS website tells me her fiance would need to apply for a K1,K3 visa. Being married she is entitled to rights the typical J visa holder does not have. This is where the immigrant/nonimmigrant visa process breaks down. USCIS makes it painfully expensiv…

A 'marriage of convenience'[1] in that sort of situation is typically treated as fraud, with potentially high penalties (deportation for the incoming, jail for the citizen). I've heard from more than one recently married couple that they've been separated and intensively interviewed about their personal lives, marriage, and backgrounds. IIRC one was returning to the US, and another was entering Canada. In both cases one of the couple was a native citizen.

If that were the actual reason, I'd be surprised if there wasn't a standard form letter or actual reason for denial. I suppose 'Go Away, We Can't Talk About It' might get used in marginal cases or when the appropriate authority can't be bothered doing the actual research.

Or they just lost at Top100 Terrorist Names Bingo.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage_of_convenience

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#118

Post by rayiner »

dyladan wrote: post #115
rayiner wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cambridge isn't exactly representative, either of americans' attitudes towards immigration nor of the immigrants themselves.

At Western Michigan University in Kalamazoo, Michigan the story is pretty similar, and we aren't exactly the best known college worldwide.

Universities in general are far to the left of mainstream on these issues.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#119

Post by Thrymr »

johnnyg wrote: post #16

Unless you walked through Alaska on a land bridge, you too are an immigrant. We can either embrace the strength of a democracy to turn the huddled masses into a productive force for good or we can choose to turn inward. Guided by fear, we are making the wrong choice.

"Immigrant" does not mean "descended from someone who came here". Some people were actually born here. Yes, we are all descended from immigrants (some of us from those who walked from Asia), but that doesn't make us and our children's children "immigrants" as well.

Re: Jordanian citizen was denied re-entry to the US on eve of his PhD defense at JHU

#120

Post by army »

piqufoh wrote: post #61
untog wrote: post #43

As an immigrant in the US, watching HN lately has been enlightening. Absolutely none of this is new- and it's also almost entirely unrelated to PRISM. Despite the fact that tech companies have been struggling with insane visa rules for years, it's only now that we start posting about individual injustices, now that we can file it under the banner of "government bad" ?

Why would this be unrelated to PRISM? As this guy doesn't know what he's accused of, and we have no idea what PRISM is looking for, assuming they're unrelated is as fallacious as assuming they are related.

This sort of stuff has been happening forever. I'm sure if you found some people who were international students in the 80s or 90s they would have similar stories about capriciousness with regards to student visas.

The rules basically say that embassy official should only give out student visas if they are confident that the student meets the terms of the visa, particularly that they have no intent to overstay or permanently immigrate to the U.S. I.e. the default is not granting the visa, rather than granting the visa.

The rules are bizarre: while you're on a non-immigrant visa you have to prove that you have no intent to immigrate or seek immigrant status, yet ultimately many people will seek green cards. Indeed, there is plenty of talk that the U.S. should actively seek to encourage international students to stay permanently, while at the same time the rules say that visas shouldn't be granted to international students who might possibly be considering staying permanently.

Post reply on HN