Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

9to5mac.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

671–680 of 1001 posts

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#671

Post by estearum »

soraminazuki wrote: post #461
estearum wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah You can beat the system and be disobedient while still behaving ethically. In fact that's the very best time to beat the system and be disobedient.

Sure, that's possible , but the question is, is that what's actually happening?

Yes, by and large the vast majority of the thousands of companies that YC invests in are probably behaving within ethical boundaries.

While there's no shortage of horror stories and I think greater scrutiny/criticism is warranted, I doubt that it's an actual criminal organization.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#672

Post by JKCalhoun »

Laurel1234 wrote: post #560
JKCalhoun wrote: post #392

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to use the word sociopath, because it has such a fine point on it, but if you believe there are smart "sociopaths" out there, might they be attracted to AI in general (companies like OpenAI or SpaceXAI specifically)?

Sam Altman raped his sister and assassinated a whistleblower. He's been removed from his last two companies for being a habitual liar (he managed to strongarm his way back into OpenAI of course). He only has money brcause he sold his first company based on fraudulent user numbers. Hard to imagine people will go work for the plagiarism machine run by a sociopath because of their high ethic and moral standards.

I was describing a "magnet" effect, you're describing a "filter". Interesting.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#673

Post by latexr »

nullbio wrote: post #668
latexr wrote: post #591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your parent comment isn’t saying they doubt the assertion, they’re asking for details. If you say you know for certain , it makes sense to ask how. It makes a big difference if the answer is “I used to work there”, or “I implemented those systems myself”, or “I heard my cousin’s second ex-wife say she heard it from her hairdresser”, or “aliens visited me in my dreams and told me”. I don’t doubt these companies are ly…

No one is going to admit to having an inside source on HackerNews. Read between the lines.

> No one is going to admit to having an inside source on HackerNews.

Not only is that not true (people make throwaway accounts specifically to share insider info), no one has said this was insider information, there are plenty of other ways to know these details.

> Read between the lines.

That means nothing. There’s no information given, there’s nothing to read between.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#674

Post by MeetingsBrowser »

malshe wrote: post #359
MeetingsBrowser wrote: post #312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It very well could be a culture issue. If it is, would you extend your opinion to say Apple turns a blind eye to ethical issues as well? All of the employees divulging secrets came from Apple after all. The person named in the lawsuit was a 24 year Apple veteran and a VP at departure.

It sounds more like they were kept in check at Apple and when they left they showed their true color

VP is a leadership position, and has significant influence over the culture

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#675

Post by IAmGraydon »

busymom0 wrote: post #338
m463 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope they can pull it off. That said, silicon valley is full of stories where people brazenly stole from company A to start company B and pretty much got away with it. EDIT: this is the one I remember: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadence_Design_Systems%2C_Inc....

The silicon valley TV show even had episodes on this! Man I miss that show. They'd have so much funny material nowadays if they came back.

Definitely in my top 5 favorite shows of all time. I still rewatch it from time to time.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#677

Post by IAmGraydon »

moomoo11 wrote: post #458
Robdel12 wrote: post #70

OpenAI is about to get ROCKED on this. From this report, this looks open and shut. Apple has basically infinite money and incredible lawyers. Not sure what OpenAI can counter with unless they have clear, hard evidence this hasn’t been happening.

Apple should buy OpenAI

Apple doesn’t want a financial sinkhole. They’re in the business of actually making money.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#678

Post by latexr »

estearum wrote: post #630
latexr wrote: post #584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sam Altman clearly has no qualms with lying and being unethical and eventually was at the front of Y Combinator, so that question either doesn’t care for ethics, doesn’t do a good job of filtering, or specifically filters in favour of unethical behaviour.

Or unethical people are hard to spot, in part due to, you know... their lack of ethics.

> Or unethical people are hard to spot

That’s covered by my options: “doesn’t do a good job of filtering”.

> due to, you know... their lack of ethics.

Being unethical and being able to hide it are entirely orthogonal.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#679

Post by wuschel »

nsagent wrote: post #651
aesthesia wrote: post #564

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate on the loopholes here?

I'm unwilling to speculate whether or not OpenAI is breaking their agreements (I honestly have no clue), but as an NLP researcher I'm certain they could launder data by having an LLM rewrite it and subsequently train on the rewritten data. Papers like "Curated Synthetic Data Doesn't Have to Collapse" [1] and "How to Synthesize Text Data without Model Collapse?" [2] demonstrate it's possible to do this. Since OpenAI's…

Side question to you, considering your occupation:

Could you please list a set of core papers (or other resources) that give a beginner an overview or even understand of the fundamental concepts and techniques with LLMs?

Thank you!

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#680

Post by mr_toad »

swiftcoder wrote: post #565
embedding-shape wrote: post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> $95k does not seems like enough money to totally upend your life like that for. That's because most of us here are so used to the amount of money we earn. But for people who literally struggling with month-to-month payments, 100K feels like a life-changing amount of money. If they were just saving month by month, they might have never reached that amount in their entire life. Our perspectives here on HN are very on…

I don't know, the very same comment mentions that the person was earning 6 figures. Less-than-a-year's-salary is definitely a weird thing to throw a comfortable 6 figure income out the window for - it's not like 95k is "never work a day in your life" money.

People can earn six figures and still be living paycheque to paycheque, and up to their ears in debt.
Post reply on HN