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Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#531

Post by user43928 »

cromka wrote: post #512
general1465 wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They systematically violated copyright when they grabbed whole internet to train their models. Do you really believe that they will stop stealing because they signed some funny ToS? Especially when every bit of data they have and competition does not have is making their model better.

People downvote you like you're being paranoid, but we're literally discussing this in a thread that shows how little respect those companies have for any sort of trade secrets.

How does the allegation make any sense?

AI labs can hardly just throw random confidential data into the training and then hope it does not leak into the output of their model in an obvious way.

If that would be found it would destroy their main source of revenue, it could became a major national security or healthcare enforcement matter, and result in criminal investigations.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#532

Post by bloppe »

UltraSane wrote: post #497
appplication wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An acquaintance of mine was accidentally wired about $100k when it was supposed to be $5k. Before it could be reversed, they moved accounts and immediately bought a one way flight out of country. They then changed all socials and handles. They are now ignoring all court documents and are on track to get a default judgement against them. Their rationale? “It’s mine, they owed me this”. They are 100% convinced that the…

$95,000 isn't that much to destroy your life over.

I'll do it for free

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#533

Post by harry8 »

transdev12 wrote: post #131
overfeed wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI also has infinite money, and the graph for money/lawyering gets clamped well below what OpenAI can afford. It's going to end most other corporate courtroom tangles: with an undisclosed settlement and a well-publicized partnership.

OpenAI really doesn’t have infinite money. They have a lot of money, sure, but it is being burned like crazy, we know this. It is widely known that they are deeply unprofitable. Compare that with Apple, a company that throws off billions of cash every quarter. This isn’t a legit comparison.

Legal fees are insignificant to open ai. Either they get profitable and the money does not run out or they don't, eventually can't raise more and close leaving these proceedings irrelevant.

At no point is money as a resource being spent on this legal case any kind of meaningful constraint. Equally true for both open ai and apple.

You? You're toast if you need legal justice with either co on the other side. The law exists so that the strongest might not always get their way. It was a good ideal, maybe we should bring it back.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#534

Post by harry8 »

amazingman wrote: post #395
overfeed wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OpenAI also has infinite money, and the graph for money/lawyering gets clamped well below what OpenAI can afford. It's going to end most other corporate courtroom tangles: with an undisclosed settlement and a well-publicized partnership.

OpenAI's money belongs to investors and can be pulled if, say, investors got spooked. Apple's money is much more real.

Investors get spooked the only thing they can do is mark it to zero. There's no "getting your money back" It has been spent on salaries, servers, Washington PR firms, political donations...

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#535

Post by embedding-shape »

palmotea wrote: post #490
appplication wrote: post #286

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An acquaintance of mine was accidentally wired about $100k when it was supposed to be $5k. Before it could be reversed, they moved accounts and immediately bought a one way flight out of country. They then changed all socials and handles. They are now ignoring all court documents and are on track to get a default judgement against them. Their rationale? “It’s mine, they owed me this”. They are 100% convinced that the…

> An acquaintance of mine was accidentally wired about $100k when it was supposed to be $5k. Before it could be reversed, they moved accounts and immediately bought a one way flight out of country. They then changed all socials and handles. They are now ignoring all court documents and are on track to get a default judgement against them. $95k does not seems like enough money to totally upend your life like that for.

> $95k does not seems like enough money to totally upend your life like that for.

That's because most of us here are so used to the amount of money we earn. But for people who literally struggling with month-to-month payments, 100K feels like a life-changing amount of money. If they were just saving month by month, they might have never reached that amount in their entire life.

Our perspectives here on HN are very one-sided when it comes to things like this, anyone who been poor previously (or is currently) could attest to this.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#536

Post by woadwarrior01 »

Chu4eeno wrote: post #378
woadwarrior01 wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because Android re-skinned to use BUTTONS. No. Steve's rage was justified, IMO. It was because Eric Schmidt was on Apple's board while simultaneously being Google's CEO and Google was surreptitiously building Android at the time. Mother of all conflict of interests. There was a recent story that reminded me of it. Mike Krieger was on Figma's board and Anthropic's CPO, while Anthropic was surreptitiously building Cl…

It wasn't very surreptitiously, Google very loudly bought Android Inc. for 50 million in 2005, two years before Apple ripped of the phone that won the iF Design Award in 2006, the LG Prada.

> Apple ripped of the phone that won the iF Design Award in 2006, the LG Prada.

Nice, albeit implausible story. Apple had been working on multi touch screens for a long time before that. They applied for a patent on it from 2004[1]. And TBF, neither Apple nor LG invented capacitive touch screens. Multiple discovery is a thing.

[1]: https://patents.google.com/patent/US7663607B2/en

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#537

Post by test6554 »

appplication wrote: post #286
grvdrm wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This is how you behave when you think you're so much smarter than everyone around you that consequences don't apply you. Spot on perfect. I see this too often and not just in tech.

An acquaintance of mine was accidentally wired about $100k when it was supposed to be $5k. Before it could be reversed, they moved accounts and immediately bought a one way flight out of country. They then changed all socials and handles. They are now ignoring all court documents and are on track to get a default judgement against them. Their rationale? “It’s mine, they owed me this”. They are 100% convinced that the…

This reminds me of the kids in MR. Deeds.

Kid 1: What are you going to do with your $20,000

Kid2: quit school

Homeless man: good idea, school is for fools!!

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#538

Post by danshipt »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #135
stavros wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Companies don't get to be worth billions of dollars without doing something unethical.

It's people who hold these beliefs who commit these acts. They're so convinced everyone around them is depraved, usually–at least in part–through personal experience, that they don't stop to consider the alternative.

Nah. Simple logic: look at Thiel and Musk. Two of the most deplorable human beings out there

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#539

Post by danshipt »

estearum wrote: post #103
TheJoeMan wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a counterpoint, why should a “metal finishing technique” be proprietary? Lying to the vendor that Apple said it’s ok is obviously wrong, but an employee taking that knowledge in their head doesn’t seem wrong to me. We have moved past the age of indentured apprentices and the freemasons.

Because Apple paid to produce that knowledge? It's good that people can spend a lot of time and money developing new knowledge and then for some period of time they get to exclusively reap the rewards of doing so. Do you mind if I MITM all of your work output, your emails, your code, your messages, and attach my name to it and then receive your paychecks in exchange for my work?

> Do you mind if I MITM all of your work output, your emails, your code, your messages, and attach my name to it and then receive your paychecks in exchange for my work?

You just described the whole AI industry

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#540

Post by danshipt »

azinman2 wrote: post #445
nullbio wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously they are looking at your IP and code. Anthropic trains on your data regardless of you opting out, I know that one for certain. There's no coincidence they "keep your data temporarily despite opting out" - because they wash it in legal loopholes. There is no opt out. These companies WILL steal your business. Only a matter of time before they are sued as well.

> Anthropic trains on your data regardless of you opting out, I know that one for certain. How do you know that?

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