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Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#91

Post by tehjoker »

joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

Generally speaking, companies retaining a competitive advantage with each other is good for their investors but bad for the public. It's usually to the public's benefit for employees to share knowledge, it makes goods and services cheaper and more available.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#92

Post by bunderbunder »

MeetingsBrowser wrote: post #48
xnx wrote: post #38

A company that behaves like this in one area, cannot be trusted in any area. Any enterprise that endorses/allows OpenAI products to be used is taking a big risk.

I’m not one to defend huge companies, but OpenAI is a huge company. It’s possible this kind of behavior is endorsed throughout, or it’s possible it’s limited to this specific group. We know nothing beyond what Apple has alleged.

I’ve been at companies where just one group - or even just one person - did something unconscionable and kept getting away with it until the story hit the headlines. And I can tell you, it was never just an isolated incident involving just that group. It’s also all the people who knew something was up and didn’t say anything. And it’s the corporate leadership fostering a pervasive culture of turning a blind eye to ethical problems. Often by allowing people in power to ensure that sounding the alarm is a career-limiting move.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#93

Post by stavros »

kbelder wrote: post #84
stavros wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because companies get an advantage by having their people do this. You only hear about the times they get caught, but apparently they get caught so rarely that it's worth it.

Everywhere I've ever worked, if I went to management and said "hey, I've got some files from my last job, if you want to see them," they would say "absolutely not, please get rid of them RIGHT NOW," and probably fire me. But, I don't work in Silicon Valley.

Companies don't get to be worth billions of dollars without doing something unethical.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#94

Post by Cyberdog »

formerly_proven wrote: post #77
kridsdale1 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And vindictiveness. Steve declared thermonuclear war on Google because Android re-skinned to use BUTTONS.

> Steve declared thermonuclear war on Google because Android re-skinned to use BUTTONS. Was there ever a point in time where Google was not the default search engine on iOS?

Yes, briefly: https://qz.com/apple-google-yahoo-search-engine-safari-antit...

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#95

Post by sandeepkd »

MeetingsBrowser wrote: post #48
xnx wrote: post #38

A company that behaves like this in one area, cannot be trusted in any area. Any enterprise that endorses/allows OpenAI products to be used is taking a big risk.

I’m not one to defend huge companies, but OpenAI is a huge company. It’s possible this kind of behavior is endorsed throughout, or it’s possible it’s limited to this specific group. We know nothing beyond what Apple has alleged.

Not being able to prove is one thing, pretending it may not be the case is next level of positivity. There are definitely going to be pockets of hard working smart folks in every place, however the company as a whole would get a bad name even if few folks are indulged and the company is not doing anything about it.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#96

Post by ryandrake »

joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

Culture issue. From How to Apply to Y Combinator[1] by Paul Graham:

"Please tell us about the time you most successfully hacked some (non-computer) system to your advantage."

> we’re not looking for the sort of obedient, middle-of-the-road people that big companies tend to hire. We’re looking for people who like to beat the system.

1: https://www.ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#97

Post by nsz65 »

ErneX wrote: post #5
joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

This isn’t the first time something like this happens and I always wonder how are these seemingly smart people earning good money so dumb.

More like lot of people are leaving Apple for OpenAI (no surprise) and an Apple manager wants to send a signal to everyone leaving to chill with what they walk out with. Corps have to perform a lot of theatre because there is lot of info constantly leaking out.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#98

Post by xp84 »

Robdel12 wrote: post #70

OpenAI is about to get ROCKED on this. From this report, this looks open and shut. Apple has basically infinite money and incredible lawyers. Not sure what OpenAI can counter with unless they have clear, hard evidence this hasn’t been happening.

For real. If Apple can prove half of this complaint, OpenAI need to be jumping straight to "how can we settle this immediately." Can you imagine how much fun Apple lawyers would have taking this to a jury trial? Especially considering overall Apple knows that the public overall vaguely likes Apple and distrusts "AI" companies for, hmmm... (alleged) IP theft.

I'm also wondering about all these involved ex-Apple people who decided to pivot to crime, it seems like OpenAI has to fire all of them, no? Because how do you just keep them, knowing that they're all basically tainted, and that Apple will be coming back to sue you again for anything that seems "inspired" by Apple products or tech.

What a massive cock-up for whoever (Tan?) is at the top of this conspiracy, to think this was worth the risk, and to have not known that the chances of getting caught going this far outside the legal boundaries were less than 100%.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#100

Post by estearum »

ryandrake wrote: post #96
joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

Culture issue. From How to Apply to Y Combinator [1] by Paul Graham: "Please tell us about the time you most successfully hacked some (non-computer) system to your advantage." > we’re not looking for the sort of obedient, middle-of-the-road people that big companies tend to hire. We’re looking for people who like to beat the system. 1: https://www.ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html

Nah

You can beat the system and be disobedient while still behaving ethically. In fact that's the very best time to beat the system and be disobedient.

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