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Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

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Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#461

Post by soraminazuki »

estearum wrote: post #100
ryandrake wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Culture issue. From How to Apply to Y Combinator [1] by Paul Graham: "Please tell us about the time you most successfully hacked some (non-computer) system to your advantage." > we’re not looking for the sort of obedient, middle-of-the-road people that big companies tend to hire. We’re looking for people who like to beat the system. 1: https://www.ycombinator.com/howtoapply.html

Nah You can beat the system and be disobedient while still behaving ethically. In fact that's the very best time to beat the system and be disobedient.

Sure, that's possible, but the question is, is that what's actually happening?

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#462

Post by dash2 »

EPWN3D wrote: post #406
jandrewrogers wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn’t a dog whistle. The US actually does have a high-trust society compared to most of the world. Petty theft, snatching, pickpockets, scams, etc are relatively uncommon compared to e.g. many popular places in Europe. Americans are famously vulnerable to it when traveling because it isn’t really part of their domestic threat environment. In many areas, Americans don’t bother to lock anything. You can leave stuff…

It really depends on the type of trust you're talking about. You're right that in many places in the US, people generally act honestly. But that's not always true -- porch pirates are still a huge problem in cities, for example. Policy-wise, I would not describe the US as "high trust" relative to the rest of the first world. Virtually all of our non-senior welfare programs are means-tested or require some proof of vi…

We can look this up empirically: https://ourworldindata.org/trust. It shows US is a medium-high trust society; lower than parts of Europe, and lower than China (assuming people answered honestly there!) but higher than most of Africa, South America and Asia.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#463

Post by ookblah »

Aurornis wrote: post #124
joshstrange wrote: post #2

Some pretty damning stuff: > OpenAI also instructs new hires on how to avoid scrutiny when they leave Apple. For example, Mr. Tan warns them not to tell Apple that they have taken jobs at OpenAI, so they can stay at Apple as long as they can. > Apple says it discovered a pattern of OpenAI recruits emailing themselves confidential information when leaving Apple, including Tan. > OpenAI apparently used confidential App…

It gets even worse. The person not only kept the laptop and used an exploit to download confidential Apple documents, they bragged about it to a contact who was still working at Apple who was also feeding him information: > Liu allegedly kept an Apple-issued laptop after departing the company and exploited a vulnerability to download dozens of confidential Apple documents while he was working at OpenAI. He also maint…

lol openai will be fine, but this guy and everyone in his blast radius is fucked. play stupid games win stupid prizes.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#464

Post by dash2 »

matheusmoreira wrote: post #400
wang_li wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Civil disobedience involves flagrantly and publicly and obviously violating the law so you can be arrested to draw attention to whatever issue you have with the law. If you’re breaking the law and trying to get away with it, that’s just criminality and isn’t honorable or respectable.

Civil disobedience is the breaking of laws your conscience tells you are unjust -- and accepting all possible consequences that come along with such an act. Doesn't mean you have to make it trivial for the consequences to find you by literally walking yourself into jail.

You are mistaken and gp is correct: civil disobedience is usually thought of as done in public. "My conscience tells me it's fine to steal from this rich bastard because property is theft" is not civil disobedience.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#465

Post by spacedcowboy »

downrightmike wrote: post #452
xp84 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For real. If Apple can prove half of this complaint, OpenAI need to be jumping straight to "how can we settle this immediately. " Can you imagine how much fun Apple lawyers would have taking this to a jury trial? Especially considering overall Apple knows that the public overall vaguely likes Apple and distrusts "AI" companies for, hmmm... (alleged) IP theft. I'm also wondering about all these involved ex-Apple peopl…

Also OpenAI is the one that bought all the ram chips for the years to come, so no one likes them

Apple’s proposed remedy: give Us all the ram.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#467

Post by rixed »

joe_mamba wrote: post #152
Aurornis wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It gets even worse. The person not only kept the laptop and used an exploit to download confidential Apple documents, they bragged about it to a contact who was still working at Apple who was also feeding him information: > Liu allegedly kept an Apple-issued laptop after departing the company and exploited a vulnerability to download dozens of confidential Apple documents while he was working at OpenAI. He also maint…

>Whenever I leave a company I make sure everything that belongs to the company goes back to them Because you're probably come from a high trust culture where you've been taught reciprocal trust, responsibility and accountability, but there's people coming from low trust environments where exploiting loopholes and scamming everyone outside their inner circle is the norm, and it's the way they learned to get ahead in l…

> This isn't something you can screen for in a classic job interview

Why not? Sounds not that hard. I actually believe this is something that would make a candidate looks good in an interview for many large corporations.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#468

Post by ElFitz »

coccinelle wrote: post #434
SXX wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to disappoint you, but no you cannot live "comfortably" in "poor countries" for $100,000 for "years". Well, unless you mean like two years. I lived across South East Asia for more than decade and now live here full time. I have to live on around $20,000 / year most of the time since starting my company. And I do not live anywhere close to what average US / EU citizen will call "comfortable" let alone people fro…

50,000 sounds like a lot. Most people in West European countries don’t make that much.

EU average is ~€39.000, gross, before taxes. And only nine countries have above average average salaries.

And that’s not available income. France median pre-tax "net" income is ~€2.100 / month.

Re: Apple sues OpenAI, accuses ex-employees of stealing trade secrets

#470

Post by general1465 »

azinman2 wrote: post #445
nullbio wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously they are looking at your IP and code. Anthropic trains on your data regardless of you opting out, I know that one for certain. There's no coincidence they "keep your data temporarily despite opting out" - because they wash it in legal loopholes. There is no opt out. These companies WILL steal your business. Only a matter of time before they are sued as well.

> Anthropic trains on your data regardless of you opting out, I know that one for certain. How do you know that?

They systematically violated copyright when they grabbed whole internet to train their models. Do you really believe that they will stop stealing because they signed some funny ToS? Especially when every bit of data they have and competition does not have is making their model better.
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