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Department of Commerce has lifted export controls on Claude Fable 5 and Mythos 5

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Re: Department of Commerce has lifted export controls on Claude Fable 5 and Mythos 5

#671

Post by tbugrara »

nickv wrote: post #83

I bet you that nothing changed with how Fable 5 is run. "Anthropic has agreed to proactively detect and address security risks associated with the models" LOL, this was already happening. This clown car administration just keeps making shit up and then backpedalling in a way that just leaves everything worse.

I'm not fan of this administration to say the least but assuming they are incompetent is dangerous. Assume they're actually 10-head and ask yourself, what would explain their behavior?

For example, you make an astute observation corroborated by the duration of the ban. Aligning a model is the biggest challenge of these companies, it's unlikely they were able to make a giant leap in alignment capabilities in about a month. You know what is easy to do in a month? Establishing the foundation for digital identity and surveillance.

The government just forced (heavily incentivized) these companies to invest in classifiers and monitoring in a way they haven't needed before. All of this new infrastructure can be used outside the context of the people using language models.

Re: Department of Commerce has lifted export controls on Claude Fable 5 and Mythos 5

#672

Post by nomel »

hack1312 wrote: post #662
Schiendelman wrote: post #658

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you are, in fact, a 'technical product manager'" is extremely rude.

It’s hardly rude, let alone “extremely” rude. People who are transgender are straight up told to kill themselves daily on social media by bigots and you’re melting down over someone having the temerity to question some random account’s (ie, you) credentials? Grow some thicker skin.

It's definitely rude to suggest someone is lying.

Re: Department of Commerce has lifted export controls on Claude Fable 5 and Mythos 5

#673

Post by aspenmartin »

digitaltrees wrote: post #670
aspenmartin wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes sense but I am not comfortable with the open source picture either. It depends on the use case and long term strategy. If you're handling customer support tickets or something, beyond some capability I can't imagine the ROI would be worth needing the absolute frontier. You are then in a wonderfully lovely place: absolutely full control over the model and inference stack (if you want). But - Plenty of busin…

I am not sure I understand your arguments. You seem to be taking both positions. I suspect that is because there are a few confounding variables and diverse needs AI solves and that makes a cohesive analysis hard to reach. I have a clear view that cuts through the complexity, whether you find it useful or persuasive is another matter but I’ll lay it out. 1. All intelligence has value. A Harvard MBA or Stanford CS eng…

I agree with everything you're saying. And I would also agree if you can run your business adequately on OSS models you should absolutely do that for exactly the reasons you say. All I mean is: frontier models will always have their place and I don't see a way for OSS to ever change that picture. I also worry that the economics that makes meaningful open weights model development possible may break someday but I don't really see a mechanism for this at this point.

I don't actually have a use case in mind where you would _need_ or get a substantial competitive advantage of the absolute frontier in some sort of workflow or whatever load bearing DAG there is for your business. But if there are cases like this, that will suck.

Re: Department of Commerce has lifted export controls on Claude Fable 5 and Mythos 5

#674

Post by aspenmartin »

eueeu wrote: post #666
aspenmartin wrote: post #638

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This makes sense but I am not comfortable with the open source picture either. It depends on the use case and long term strategy. If you're handling customer support tickets or something, beyond some capability I can't imagine the ROI would be worth needing the absolute frontier. You are then in a wonderfully lovely place: absolutely full control over the model and inference stack (if you want). But - Plenty of busin…

You’ve been boosting frontier model development for months and talking aloud about escape velocity lmao. Take your ball and go home

I don't have a ball, where's my ball? Did you take my ball? I want my ball.

Re: Department of Commerce has lifted export controls on Claude Fable 5 and Mythos 5

#675

Post by Schiendelman »

slopinthebag wrote: post #669
Schiendelman wrote: post #659

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. So you believe that I don't think software quality affects the business?

No, you said it yourself, you don't believe software quality matters unless it "impacts the business". > It's just irrelevant how bad code is unless it impacts the business So the negative effects of poor code quality are completely irrelevant to you as long as they don't affect the bottom line. Sorry if you think I'm being rude. I think it's ruder to make peoples lives worse because you only care about profits.

So you've got this low code quality that somehow doesn't impact product quality but at the same time makes someone's life worse? Can you give me a concrete example? Help me understand. I'm coming at this from having been in test for a long time before product, I care quite a bit about cquality, so it's really fascinating to see you respond this way.

Re: Department of Commerce has lifted export controls on Claude Fable 5 and Mythos 5

#676

Post by slopinthebag »

Schiendelman wrote: post #675
slopinthebag wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you said it yourself, you don't believe software quality matters unless it "impacts the business". > It's just irrelevant how bad code is unless it impacts the business So the negative effects of poor code quality are completely irrelevant to you as long as they don't affect the bottom line. Sorry if you think I'm being rude. I think it's ruder to make peoples lives worse because you only care about profits.

So you've got this low code quality that somehow doesn't impact product quality but at the same time makes someone's life worse? Can you give me a concrete example? Help me understand. I'm coming at this from having been in test for a long time before product, I care quite a bit about cquality, so it's really fascinating to see you respond this way.

Of course it impacts product quality, in fact that's really what matters, code quality is just a useful proxy for that since they're so highly correlated.

Re: Department of Commerce has lifted export controls on Claude Fable 5 and Mythos 5

#677

Post by SwellJoe »

slopinthebag wrote: post #645
Chyzwar wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because claude subscription tokens are cheaper than deepseek and friends. You have whole industry of people reselling Claude subscriptions in China. Can you comprehend than Anthropic is winning because is both cheap(subscriptions) and better SOTA. People are cheering China providers when I reality they would rugpull open weights the moment they are competive. China models are trash that why they are giving them away…

No, Claude subscription tokens are not cheaper than the Deepseek API. You are dead wrong on that.

I just built a pretty complicated OSV (Open Source Vulnerabilities) data pipeline, 731 lines of code (excluding comments), DuckDB, etc. for $0.31 in Reasonix. According to Reasonix, I'm averaging 97.90% cached tokens (which are like an order of magnitude cheaper than non-cached). If I worked eight hours every day, at that rate, I'd be spending about $2 to $3 a day. So...yeah, DeepSeek is cheaper, but not, like crazily cheaper than the $100 plan from Anthropic, where I rarely run out of tokens. But, Anthropic and OpenAI are pushing people toward usage-based billing rather than flat rate subscriptions. The free lunch from the big guys is coming to an end, I suspect, at which point, spending $50-$75 a month with DeepSeek begins to seem like a good option.

There are also a bunch of things where the API is the only reasonable way to make use of a model, and DeepSeek makes that easy and cheap, none of the US vendors do. It's extremely expensive to use Anthropic and OpenAI APIs. I'm always trying to find places I can replace Opus API usage with DeepSeek or MiMo or even GLM (though, so far, GLM is also a bit pricey, I guess their coding plans provide API access and make it cheaper, so that might be an option).

Re: Department of Commerce has lifted export controls on Claude Fable 5 and Mythos 5

#678

Post by Schiendelman »

slopinthebag wrote: post #676
Schiendelman wrote: post #675

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So you've got this low code quality that somehow doesn't impact product quality but at the same time makes someone's life worse? Can you give me a concrete example? Help me understand. I'm coming at this from having been in test for a long time before product, I care quite a bit about cquality, so it's really fascinating to see you respond this way.

Of course it impacts product quality, in fact that's really what matters, code quality is just a useful proxy for that since they're so highly correlated.

So I'm not sure what I said that you disagree with.

Re: Department of Commerce has lifted export controls on Claude Fable 5 and Mythos 5

#679

Post by slopinthebag »

Schiendelman wrote: post #678
slopinthebag wrote: post #676

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it impacts product quality, in fact that's really what matters, code quality is just a useful proxy for that since they're so highly correlated.

So I'm not sure what I said that you disagree with.

You're just trolling now. How rude.

Re: Department of Commerce has lifted export controls on Claude Fable 5 and Mythos 5

#680

Post by algoth1 »

siva7 wrote: post #270
matheusmoreira wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Fable 5 will be included for up to 50% of weekly usage limits through July 7, after which it will be available via usage credits. > The new classifier also comes at the cost of flagging benign requests more often during routine coding and debugging tasks. Here's Fable 5, the strongest model. Actually try to use it to harden your code and it turns into Opus 4.8. You have seven days to use it, and only half of that t…

So fable will jump more often to Opus than it already did on original release? Working with fable felt like having to constantly fight against your work tool. Frustrating. Now they're making it even more frustrating.

It even refuses to do numerical time-series analysis (this on an empty project). This is something even a non-llm ML algorithm can do. It’s insane
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