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U.S. allows Anthropic to release Mythos AI to ‘trusted’ US organizations

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Re: U.S. allows Anthropic to release Mythos AI to ‘trusted’ US organizations

#791

Post by actionfromafar »

calvinmorrison wrote: post #249
preg_match wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That repealing the chevron doctrine was a calculated play in the unitary executive theory. We all know congress is basically useless these days. But we also know that regulation isn’t, like, optional. It’s going to happen no matter what. So what’s left? Where does that decision making go? Turns out the executive, so that’s what we’ve been seeing and it’s largely uncontested. This should have been obvious to most peop…

perhaps congress could do something other than vacation

But the Orange Tsar King ordered Vacation, so Vacation it is.

Re: U.S. allows Anthropic to release Mythos AI to ‘trusted’ US organizations

#792

Post by [deleted] »

epolanski wrote: post #607
_heimdall wrote: post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is far from a new challenge though. Another recent example, China has an advantage on cost of labor and manufacturing, and lack of enforcement of IP rights. They can produce for much cheaper than many other countries but it hasn't led to everyone banning trade with them.

What part of China has cheap qualified labor? Skilled engineers nowadays demand between southern and central European prices at the very least.

[deleted]

Re: U.S. allows Anthropic to release Mythos AI to ‘trusted’ US organizations

#793

Post by ElProlactin »

surgical_fire wrote: post #754
ElProlactin wrote: post #739

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The thing is, I don't care. China can be as awful as it wants to be to it's own citizens. Way to speedrun proof that you're an abhorrent person. > Again, I don't care. China sees places like Tibet and Taiwan as China. Not my problem. > China never threated to send troops to invade Greenland. So China causing more than a million deaths and displacements when it actually invaded a functionally sovereign state (Tibet)…

> So China causing more than a million deaths and displacements when it actually invaded a functionally sovereign state (Tibet) and threatening to invade and seize Taiwan, which has its own democratically-elected government, constitution, currency, central bank, military, etc. "is not your problem" Correct. > but somehow Trump threatening to invade Greenland is your problem? Correct. > Unless you're a Greenlander, by…

> No, I just live in a country that does not pretend to be the world police.

No, you're just an abhorrent person.

The fact that you don't care about the people of Tibet, Taiwan, or any other country or group of people that you don't deem important because they don't share your interests, but feign fear that your life could be shattered by Trump invading Greenland, speaks volumes about what type of person you are.

The largest contributor to the EU economy (Germany) was responsible for the worst genocide in human history. The second and fourth largest (France and Spain) were two of the most brutal colonial powers in history, and their wealth today wouldn't exist without the resources they violently extracted from their colonies. Portugal was the largest participant in the Transatlantic Slave Trade. The wealth of the Netherlands today stems from the Dutch trading empires of the 17th century, which were responsible for shameful atrocities around the world.

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2023/10/31/the-colonial-o...

The EU narrative is one of a peace project but in reality, it's pretty obvious that it was an attempt to maintain Europe's geopolitical relevance after the post-WW2 rise of the US and USSR. When the EEC was founded, it even incorporated France and Belgium's African colonies and fully absorbed French Algeria, where, by the way, somewhere between 400,000 and 700,000 people eventually died during the fighting for independence from France (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_War).

Humans anywhere and everywhere (the US, Europe, China, etc.) can be horrible, and your loathsome comments prove that in microcosm.

Re: U.S. allows Anthropic to release Mythos AI to ‘trusted’ US organizations

#794

Post by itopaloglu83 »

bluegatty wrote: post #753
itopaloglu83 wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just replace the word Anthropic with defense contractor or weapons manufacturer, they’re all export controlled at this point, do you see a difference? I really hope the controls are relaxed, but at some arbitrary levels it’s expected that all countries will apply export controls.

The difference is Anthropic is not a defence contractor. Any number of materials and technology can be used for nefarious purposes. 'Security' is real concern, I'm not denying that, it's not unreasonable for gov. to be paying attention or to take some steps - but it can obviously bee too heavy-handed as well.

> The difference is Anthropic is not a defence contractor.

I'm not saying Anthropic is a defense contractor, I'm just saying once something is export controlled, the whole dynamic changes and there's no difference between them and a defense contractor.

Re: U.S. allows Anthropic to release Mythos AI to ‘trusted’ US organizations

#795

Post by digitaltrees »

Certhas wrote: post #417
digitaltrees wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. A published policy with the right to appeal exclusions from the list. An equal standard for all companies rather than ad hoc application. A countervailing policy to mitigate the unfair advantage conferred on the companies that have early access (such as a higher tax rate that goes to fund ai job loses, and a commitment that AI use of the new models won’t result in layoffs). A requirement that hardware is made av…

That would convince me that the US Administration is capable of good governance and interested in a regulatory environment that furthers the public good and curtails excessive corporate power. A tough sell indeed. But that was not the question. They can be incompetent and corrupt and favouring the interests of their buddies, and also genuinely believe that the models are actually becoming dangerous (especially in the…

I stand by my answer. They could have a televised address laying out a robust analysis of all the risks. Until their actions don't display clear explicit pay to play selection of winners and lasers, state capture of corporate power and use of technology to prolong republican political power nothing but actual good policy would be sufficient to demonstrate good intent.

Re: U.S. allows Anthropic to release Mythos AI to ‘trusted’ US organizations

#796

Post by wrsh07 »

Matl wrote: post #768
wrsh07 wrote: post #749

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems like a reasonable person could say that a model being distilled "against the model provider's wishes" is in some sense a cyber attack that is stealing information (eg the lower order bits of the model weights) I think this is mostly a confusing way to describe it, but I'm not really sure why you say it isn't an attack or adversarial. One side is doing something the other side doesn't want. Seems to be pretty…

> I'm not really sure why you say it isn't an attack or adversarial. One side is doing something the other side doesn't want. Seems to be pretty clearly adversarial. This is Anthropic we're talking about here. A company that's infamous for adversarial scraping of copyrighted content. I generally don't accept their framing, especially when it's pretty clear what the end goal of that is.

This is a bit of a non sequitur.

The most charitable read i can get is:

> Theft presupposes a legitimate possessory claim by the victim. If A’s possession of X is itself wrongful because A stole X from B, then when C takes X from A, C has not violated A’s rightful ownership of X—because A has none.

I think the whole thing is a bit fraught. In the best case, all frontier model companies would have invested in a giant expansion of Wikipedia and thus distillation would be stealing because the base information is already public and available. Obviously that's not what happened.

However, at this point, I suspect the stolen books (and scraped websites) are largely a footnote of training. Something that was essential to create early models, but relatively minor given the work expended since to create new content and RL environments

Re: U.S. allows Anthropic to release Mythos AI to ‘trusted’ US organizations

#797

Post by 2001zhaozhao »

wrsh07 wrote: post #752
K0balt wrote: post #694

The real reason, afaik, that the US is trying to restrict access to SOTA models is that a very large component of USA tailored access and surveillance relies on exploits and weaknesses that these models will easily detect. Thus, it really is an export control issue, but it has nothing to do with offensive capabilities. Offensive capabilities always exist, but pervasive defensibility would upset the asymmetric advanta…

This is the most credible-seeming claim about why a competent administration might suspend access (by any means necessary, but also by export controls) to models like Fable However, I haven't seen any prominent articles proposing this theory, I haven't seen anyone in the administration gesturing towards this as the reason (but haven't been following too closely) Do you have any sources? (And in fact, it seemed like a…

+1, this is a good thesis. It's plausible and if it's true, then that explains the opaqueness of this whole ordeal and why it's been applied to both OpenAI and Anthropic models now.

Re: U.S. allows Anthropic to release Mythos AI to ‘trusted’ US organizations

#798

Post by wrsh07 »

K0balt wrote: post #762
wrsh07 wrote: post #752

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the most credible-seeming claim about why a competent administration might suspend access (by any means necessary, but also by export controls) to models like Fable However, I haven't seen any prominent articles proposing this theory, I haven't seen anyone in the administration gesturing towards this as the reason (but haven't been following too closely) Do you have any sources? (And in fact, it seemed like a…

I doubt an administration would openly admit to sabotaging the ability for companies and individuals to safeguard their products against cyberattacks from the US government lol. That’s pretty much taking the mask all the way off. It’s the only motive I have seen that aligns with the actual scenario, and if I -did- have inside information I certainly would not be at liberty to cite it publicly lol.

The administration hasn't been so good at keeping the mask on but fair!

Was hoping someone else had proposed it though. It's a good thought

Re: U.S. allows Anthropic to release Mythos AI to ‘trusted’ US organizations

#799

Post by ch4s3 »

digitaltrees wrote: post #234
ch4s3 wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. They’re all lousy pro tariffs, anti immigration, pro tech regulations, and so on. Paul Ryan is gone.

They still spout off about free markets all the time with no sense of irony.

Literally who? The young MAGA folks in congress like Josh Hawley certainly don’t. I guess Rand Paul is a free market guy, but he’s pretty much the only one. Even Susan Colins is signing onto tariffs and other nonsense.

Re: U.S. allows Anthropic to release Mythos AI to ‘trusted’ US organizations

#800

Post by paulddraper »

jmyeet wrote: post #212
paulddraper wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The it did a pretty shit job of it. Within 100 years it was killing hundreds of thousands to fight against that purpose.

Lincoln disagrees [1]: > My paramount object in this struggle is to save the Union, and is not either to save or to destroy slavery. If I could save the Union without freeing any slave I would do it, and if I could save it by freeing all the slaves I would do it; and if I could save it by freeing some and leaving others alone, I would also do that. While chattel slavery ended when the 13th Amendment was ratified in 1…

> The South won

It’s hard to take this seriously.

But “The South Will Rise Again” folks will be happy to hear it.

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