Damn, USA, you being foolish.
The world economy is not a zero sum gain, we all do better when we do better
Cooperate with China, love and cherish them.
Unlike us of European heritage, they are not imperialistic
Get over yourselves!
US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
361–370 of 633 posts
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#362I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…
How are you accessing their API? Through OpenRouter, or direct? Are you using DeepSeek v4 Pro? $2 seems a lot cheaper than my own experience accessing them through OpenRouter for over 100 million tokens, but I am using OpenRouter to access v4 pro.
Pro is substantially more expensive than flash. In addition, there's wide variance in price with DeepSeek themselves providing the cheapest tokens last I checked (but they train on them). Caching policy also varies by provider. TTL can be as low as 5 minutes or as high as 24 hours and reading from the cache might or might not reset the timer. Whether or not you get a hit makes (IIRC) a 10x (edit: it's actually 50x) price difference in the case of DeepSeek themselves.
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#363I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…
Using laws to ban competitors is just economic warfare thats all. Its got nothing to do with "national security", thats just the reason they give us normies. You should be safe in Australia since they actually need to be friends with China.
> You should be safe in Australia since they actually need to be friends with China.
As a non-Australian, I enjoyed very much reading about Australia in a book by Tim Marshall titled "The Power of Geography". I didn't quite realize just how vulnerable they become with China's ambitions and expanse in the South Pacific due to their reliance on vital sea lanes for trade with its Asian partners. After reading that book, I can appreciate your comment much more.
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#364So this is the other side of banning American models for non-Americans? And how exactly do they plan on enforcing all of this? Great Firewall of America? This is a complete joke. The malicious clowns behind this should be removed from power and prevented from ever holding any position of power in any form of governance system.
Until they scantion Brazil
It can happen to anyone
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#365Earlier quoted context omitted.
The main cost is training the first version of model. It is very easy to just train the copy cat model based on the output of another model.
That doesn't make any sense. If the cost is training, the cost is compute, not data. Distilling another model means paying for that model, which isn't obviously less expensive than crawling the web and curating a dataset. Regardless of where your data comes from, the training process costs the same.
> paying for that model
They probably just used 100000000 free plans.
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#366Earlier quoted context omitted.
Apparently, whether or not the engineers are Chinese is the deciding factor. as long as Nicklas Backstrom is designing the EV, its all good. Or in other words, Chinese scary!
> Chinese scary! Chinese nationals should be assumed to act on behalf of China, it really isn't difficult to understand even for pathologically empathetic people.
That's fine, but what stops those Chinese nationals at Geely from messing with their cars now?
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#367Deepseek is awesome for home projects, I have used it quite a bit and the 10 bucks I loaded is yet to run out. Quality is close enough to Sonnet that with a bit of extra focus, I am not complaining.
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#368Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's just my general impression. They banned China from the ISS, China made their own space station. China's making their own x86 chips, their own GPUs. As a fellow wheel reinventer, I admire their audacity. It's the sort of thing that makes me wish my country was like China.
> makes me wish my country was like China I admire their governance ability to have long term plans. The sheer scale of their production ambitions in so many fields and their energy build out is insane. The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring.
> The fact those plans also have subclauses ensuring the party elite are made even more wealthy and powerful is less alluring
Our oligarchs do that too and all we get in return is declining infrastructure and paranoia.
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#369I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…
Using laws to ban competitors is just economic warfare thats all. Its got nothing to do with "national security", thats just the reason they give us normies. You should be safe in Australia since they actually need to be friends with China.
> Using laws to ban competitors is just economic warfare thats all. Its got nothing to do with "national security"
Economic safety is 1 angle of national security. They're not "wrong".
Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks
#370Why would my country blacklist DeepSeek? Perhaps crazy lunacy like: "Your product is too good and too inexpensive: consumers like US companies and individuals need to pay more for services."
Yes, but they won't say that. Instead they will say _too Chinese, too communist, too national security-y_
They usually say it has "ties" to the Chinese military. Meanwhile, every big tech from Microsoft, Amazon, Google, Anthropic, and a ton of smaller corporations directly supply the US military.