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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

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Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#301

Post by janalsncm »

hereme888 wrote: post #291
Matl wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the publicly stated/marketing reason for capitalist America to put companies on the Entity List? Genuinely asking. Because to me it screams 'we were only for the free market until there was no competition'

DeepSeek rose to fame through stolen IP from U.S., and created shell companies to bypass U.S. law. Typical CCP-inspired behavior. The free world needs protection from abusers. I'm sure there's a ton of other abuses they've committed as they race to become China's preferred LLM.

OpenAI and Anthropic also rose to fame from stolen IP from the US.

https://www.npr.org/2025/09/05/nx-s1-5529404/anthropic-settl...

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#302

Post by [deleted] »

guywithahat wrote: post #209
Vasbarlog wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not China that is threatening to annex Greenland though.

There's nothing wrong with the US buying greenland, which has been done for territories around the world? The US has a long history of protecting individual freedoms, China does not. There's an irony that you're aware of the misgivings of the US because we have free speech protections. You're probably less aware of the misgivings of the EU because they regularly arrest citizens for speech, and no awareness of the iss…

[deleted]

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#303

Post by mswphd »

janalsncm wrote: post #296
Matl wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the publicly stated/marketing reason for capitalist America to put companies on the Entity List? Genuinely asking. Because to me it screams 'we were only for the free market until there was no competition'

Free Market vs. planned economy was always mostly talking points, not a consistent ideology imo. Even during the Cold War, American farms were heavily subsidized. The abundant supermarkets were not a product of free markets, they were a propaganda piece. Today the US is pretty far from being a free market. Tax deductions are subsidies. Industry subsidies fund things on the front end, and bailouts are essentially subs…

As an explicit example, major revenue streams that Tesla (used to) take advantage of are

1. the EV tax credit, and

2. carbon credits

so the richest man in the world/the US had significant tailwinds for a central business venture of his via either directly taking money from the government, or taking money from other companies due to the government requiring they give him money.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#304

Post by Levitz »

gypsy_boots wrote: post #236
WarmWash wrote: post #106

If Chinese LLMs are successfully making people in the west defend China, then I think we have all the evidence we need to explain why they are giving away their models. The next step of course will be to get people using that ungodly cheap AI on Chinese servers. Which will also be defended because "I would never trust an American Lab".

It's funny how you can look at obscenely overvalued Western AI companies, with capex's that are unsustainable, and along comes a system which pokes a gaping hole in this model, and the response is "Ya, but what do those sneaky Chinese have up their sleeve here?!" Perhaps the question should instead be "Why are these Western AI companies getting insane valuations on dubious ROI, and how can these Chinese models run on…

>It's funny how you can look at obscenely overvalued Western AI companies, with capex's that are unsustainable, and along comes a system which pokes a gaping hole in this model, and the response is "Ya, but what do those sneaky Chinese have up their sleeve here?!"

The only way this is funny is if you are completely oblivious to how China usually operates.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#305

Post by mswphd »

mlboss wrote: post #278
gypsy_boots wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny how you can look at obscenely overvalued Western AI companies, with capex's that are unsustainable, and along comes a system which pokes a gaping hole in this model, and the response is "Ya, but what do those sneaky Chinese have up their sleeve here?!" Perhaps the question should instead be "Why are these Western AI companies getting insane valuations on dubious ROI, and how can these Chinese models run on…

The main cost is training the first version of model. It is very easy to just train the copy cat model based on the output of another model.

this is a justification for why one frontier lab would have extremely high spend rates. There is >1 frontier lab though.

More explicitly: if the Chinese can get near-leading performance models at a fraction of the cost by stealing from Anthropic, why doesn't OpenAI? Lord knows they could use the extra cash.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#306

Post by fearmerchant »

Matl wrote: post #132
em500 wrote: post #18

Noteworthy that Z.ai, maker of the just released near-frontier GLM 5.2, has already been on the Entity List since Jan 2025[1]. Being on the Entity List does not mean all trade is forbidden. Broadly speaking it means American companies and individuals are not allowed sell them goods and services, but they are still allowed to buy from them and pay them. AFAIK the Chinese AI companies barely depend on US goods and serv…

What's the publicly stated/marketing reason for capitalist America to put companies on the Entity List? Genuinely asking. Because to me it screams 'we were only for the free market until there was no competition'

The USA is not a suicide pact. We do need to consider national interests from time to time.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#307

Post by nick__m »

rib3ye wrote: post #276
Xunjin wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you give me some examples? Which wars do you have in mind?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Tibet_by_the_Peo...

Could you give a recent example? Because your example is as pertinent as the overthrowing of Guatemala's democratically elected President in 1954 by the CIA.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#308

Post by mswphd »

lbreakjai wrote: post #235
betaby wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> wiping out competition by undercutting them using state subsidies The same tactic is in the USA. Like every new AI datacenter has ~10 tax waiver + explicit subsidies + favorable loans, etc, etc.

As always, the US has a government removing red tape to foster innovation, while China has a regime , unfairly picking winners, to hurt and subvert the West.

this is not an accurate picture of Chinese industrial policy. In fact, you could argue they have the opposite problem. Their industrial policy encourages too many companies to enter a space, where the resulting competition kills off profit margins for whichever companies end up surviving until the end. This is exactly what we end up seeing with extremely cheap Chinese goods.

If china anointed one company per sector, they would have no reason to be so cost competitive globally. There would be no structural cause for Chinese products to outcompete the rest of the world. You can see some of this in the US, where these kinds of anointed companies exist (say e.g. Boeing/other defense contractors, at least post the 90's). They are (famously) not particularly cost competitive. This is also exactly what you'd expect economically.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#309

Post by glerk »

So this is the other side of banning American models for non-Americans? And how exactly do they plan on enforcing all of this? Great Firewall of America?

This is a complete joke. The malicious clowns behind this should be removed from power and prevented from ever holding any position of power in any form of governance system.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#310

Post by Levitz »

k4rli wrote: post #245
WarmWash wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Selling Russia weapons to help kill Ukrainians, buying Russian oil/gas to help kill Ukrainians. But free AI models or something, right?

It's hard to call either side good. It can be argued that the side which had the highest powers and oligarchs implicated in Epstein files, and which has also threatened attacks on European nations, isn't the better option. Also the nation which actively funds the war in middle-east.

If only the US was a little bit more like China, nobody would ever know about the Epstein files.

You think China doesn't get its hands dirty because of some moral superiority? The country is utterly brutal towards its own citizens, what makes you think that the lack of warmongering is anything but inability?

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