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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

251–260 of 633 posts

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#251
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What does the Russian economy have to do with anything? They had more of that industrial capacity you're talking about than Ukraine, more tanks, more armaments, more weaponry. It still didn't let them win. Because the quality matters too. > First off, they're run by a kleptocratic oligarchy… I have some awkward news about the US in recent years.

This is just an example of the fundamental nature of asymmetric insurgent warfare and the nature of proxy conflicts. It's not like Vietnam was more powerful than the US economy either. You seem confused. In an all-out existential battle Ukraine would have been wiped off the map in the first 20 minutes by nuclear weapons. This isn't an actual contest of industrial might versus industrial might.

"In an all-out existential battle" involving nuclear weapons, the United States won't be affected by the presence or absence of domestic car factories either. World War II could soak up years of total warfare effort from the belligerents, and still have factories and governments intact to send more soldiers and bombs toward the enemy. I don't think that can happen now that countries as poor as North Korea can make nuclear weapons.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#252
post #132
post #18

Noteworthy that Z.ai, maker of the just released near-frontier GLM 5.2, has already been on the Entity List since Jan 2025[1]. Being on the Entity List does not mean all trade is forbidden. Broadly speaking it means American companies and individuals are not allowed sell them goods and services, but they are still allowed to buy from them and pay them. AFAIK the Chinese AI companies barely depend on US goods and serv…

What's the publicly stated/marketing reason for capitalist America to put companies on the Entity List? Genuinely asking. Because to me it screams 'we were only for the free market until there was no competition'

[deleted]

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

and if you see the parent starting to replace Volvo engineers with Chinese nationals you will witness sudden change of heart by US officials; until then it really is just a financial fiction

How exactly does the fact that this goes through a subsidiary in Sweden change the things you mentioned?

Apparently, whether or not the engineers are Chinese is the deciding factor. as long as Nicklas Backstrom is designing the EV, its all good. Or in other words, Chinese scary!

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#254

If Chinese LLMs are successfully making people in the west defend China, then I think we have all the evidence we need to explain why they are giving away their models. The next step of course will be to get people using that ungodly cheap AI on Chinese servers. Which will also be defended because "I would never trust an American Lab".

It's funny how you can look at obscenely overvalued Western AI companies, with capex's that are unsustainable, and along comes a system which pokes a gaping hole in this model, and the response is "Ya, but what do those sneaky Chinese have up their sleeve here?!" Perhaps the question should instead be "Why are these Western AI companies getting insane valuations on dubious ROI, and how can these Chinese models run on…

>"Ya, but what do those sneaky Chinese have up their sleeve here?!"

I feel like that is way over simplified. I do not trust the American government. I do not trust the Chinese government. As an American, I believe the Chinese government has a longer and broader history of stealing intellectual property and far less checks and balances than the American government. The current American administration will be gone soon and maybe we can get some sanity back at some point. Overall, I trust my data in America more than China and I think that's reasonable. I am not naive. I'm aware of all the problems with my country and am quite vocal about it. In fact, I think it would be naive to think that the Chinese government won't have complete access to everything that goes through a Chinese server.

We are in full agreement on your second point.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I remember clearly when China invaded/bombed: Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iran, Iraq, Venezuela, Panama, Syria...

You absolutely should remember the Chinese war with the first of those; if you have trouble, a good way to remind yourself is that it was not long after the US one.

Yeah, so getting 1 out of 10 he mentioned, even if it's their direct neighbor (where disputes happen for all countries), ain't bad! This absolutely means they're the same /s

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#256
post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not China that is threatening to annex Greenland though.

When it comes to annexation, China doesn't threaten, they just invade and extinguish.

Could you give me some examples? Which wars do you have in mind?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#257

If Chinese LLMs are successfully making people in the west defend China, then I think we have all the evidence we need to explain why they are giving away their models. The next step of course will be to get people using that ungodly cheap AI on Chinese servers. Which will also be defended because "I would never trust an American Lab".

It's funny how you can look at obscenely overvalued Western AI companies, with capex's that are unsustainable, and along comes a system which pokes a gaping hole in this model, and the response is "Ya, but what do those sneaky Chinese have up their sleeve here?!" Perhaps the question should instead be "Why are these Western AI companies getting insane valuations on dubious ROI, and how can these Chinese models run on…

Not saying you're doing this specifically, but I'd be careful with thinking that "company" in China means the same as "company" in America (or in the West more generally).

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#258
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course its a matter of national security if there are military applications. The point of robotics is also weird because they've already widely adopted robotics within their own manufacturing and also America already replaced the majority of their labor by offshoring so I dont know how they would destroy american society by introducing robotics.

Show me, Chinese are not replacing their manufacturing with robots. You can't just say things off vibes alone because you think it sounds right. You're just making shit up off the top of your tongue. Show me where Chinese are replacing manufacturing labor with robots, please show me?

China literally has the most advanced dark factories in the world https://www.ien.com/redzone/blog/22948773/the-tech-enabling-...

Even in their lights on factories they use robotics enmasse, you think they're just selling the arms?

Also every single manufacturer in the world is constantly trying to automate their lines so nothing I'm saying is even controversial?

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#259
post #132
post #18

Noteworthy that Z.ai, maker of the just released near-frontier GLM 5.2, has already been on the Entity List since Jan 2025[1]. Being on the Entity List does not mean all trade is forbidden. Broadly speaking it means American companies and individuals are not allowed sell them goods and services, but they are still allowed to buy from them and pay them. AFAIK the Chinese AI companies barely depend on US goods and serv…

What's the publicly stated/marketing reason for capitalist America to put companies on the Entity List? Genuinely asking. Because to me it screams 'we were only for the free market until there was no competition'

The common thread here is that it is China. Before the 2010s and earlier, the US wasn't so concerned about China, but ever since then, China has been a big US concern for it being a technology and military rival

e.g. the Investigative Report on the U.S. National Security Issues Posed by Chinese Telecommunications Companies Huawei and ZTE report from 2012:

https://stacks.stanford.edu/file/druid:rm226yb7473/Huawei-ZT...

From that point forward, that concern has only grown. So you can view these actions as screaming "we were only for the free market until there was no competition" but if you want to genuinely know the answer to your question, the publicly stated concern is "China is a national security threat"

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#260

If Chinese LLMs are successfully making people in the west defend China, then I think we have all the evidence we need to explain why they are giving away their models. The next step of course will be to get people using that ungodly cheap AI on Chinese servers. Which will also be defended because "I would never trust an American Lab".

If they had encrypted LLM compute then in theory wouldn't matter who/what is running it
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