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US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

reuters.com

341–350 of 633 posts

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#341
post #313

The US is slowly becoming more like China. From talks of nationalizing companies to make US state owned entities to banning foreign competition. It's just so strange how you become the thing you fear.

> It's just so strange how you become the thing you fear. how does the saying go? "when you obsess over your enemy, you become your enemy"?

It's a slow motion motorcycle crash[0].

0: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_fixation

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#343

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

Using laws to ban competitors is just economic warfare thats all. Its got nothing to do with "national security", thats just the reason they give us normies. You should be safe in Australia since they actually need to be friends with China.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#344
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the publicly stated/marketing reason for capitalist America to put companies on the Entity List? Genuinely asking. Because to me it screams 'we were only for the free market until there was no competition'

Free markets generally only make sense when at the same scope of the ruling government. When country A can manipulate markets in ways that country B can't or won't, eventually country B will attempt to make trade rules that level the playing field. Its also worth noting we don't really have free markets in the US anyway.

> Its also worth noting we don't really have free markets in the US anyway.

That entirely depends on what is meant by the term. Markets that are largely free appear (IMO) to have won out worldwide quite some time ago.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#345
post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the publicly stated/marketing reason for capitalist America to put companies on the Entity List? Genuinely asking. Because to me it screams 'we were only for the free market until there was no competition'

Free Market vs. planned economy was always mostly talking points, not a consistent ideology imo. Even during the Cold War, American farms were heavily subsidized. The abundant supermarkets were not a product of free markets, they were a propaganda piece. Today the US is pretty far from being a free market. Tax deductions are subsidies. Industry subsidies fund things on the front end, and bailouts are essentially subs…

Most of the things you list don't make a market non-free. A free market can still have government regulation and distortion. In fact it requires it otherwise it will be captured by large players in short order and become non-free as a result.

The insulin example I agree is non-free. More generally the entire medical sector is only somewhat free. However I'm not sure that's a bad thing given the stakes and the history of the free market as it applies to healthcare. The medical establishment itself is an only barely disguised guild system after all.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#346

I use DeepSeek every day (via VSCode Insiders and Zed Editor). It's very affordable and, while it's slightly behind Claude (not sure how far behind Fable), it suits my working style well. I'm not using unsupervised multi-agent workflows and don't need a library of skills files - I'm writing most of the code and leaning on AI to help with mundane tasks - like; - generating types for APIs - generating boilerplate based…

Using laws to ban competitors is just economic warfare thats all. Its got nothing to do with "national security", thats just the reason they give us normies. You should be safe in Australia since they actually need to be friends with China.

What? Every country has the right to freely decide which companies are permitted to operate under its jurisdiction, and exercising that right isn’t “warfare” of any kind.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compel? I am confused, all data in China is held in datacentres which the state has full access to, that is the terms of their operation and why some big tech US companies didn't want to operate in China. They don't need to "compel" anyone, the CCP has people at every large company supervising employees, and they already have full access to your data. I am always completely baffled by these comments that not only get…

What would be the practical difference between an order from a party cadre in a private firm and a national security letter?

A legitimate legal system with judges who have no obligation to anyone or anything besides the constitution first, and laws second.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#348
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

DeepSeek rose to fame through stolen IP from U.S., and created shell companies to bypass U.S. law. Typical CCP-inspired behavior. The free world needs protection from abusers. I'm sure there's a ton of other abuses they've committed as they race to become China's preferred LLM.

The US should consider legalising some of this stuff, if I look at a leaderboard something like the top-10 models are built by companies facing serious accusations of copyright infringement. I assume the Europeans are obeying the law or whatever which is why they've so far only achieved peak-2024 performance or whatever and are making no particular contribution to the cutting edge, unlike the Americans and the Asians…

[deleted]

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#349
post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but IMO the Chinese are waging economic warfare by "commodifying the competition". US VC's and equity are massively invested in AI being very very profitable and as soon as it's not that becomes garbage debt on a balance sheet, and a lot of it. When money is invested it's expected to make a return. When a few people make bad investments they lose their bag, when many many people all make the same bad investme…

I'm confused. China has been in a fairly bad recession the last ~2 years (their housing bubble popping). Why are we assuming that recessions can only happen in the US? I'm also confused how China managed to convince so many US VC's to spend an insane amount on a technology with "no moat". China exporting cheap AI hurts American hyperscalars. But it doesn't induce the behavior in American hyperscalars that causes them…

You're attacking the strawman of "China made VC's invest in AI". That didn't happen nor was it claimed. China is being opportunistic here.

Re: US holds off blacklisting DeepSeek, more than 100 firms deemed security risks

#350
post #346

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using laws to ban competitors is just economic warfare thats all. Its got nothing to do with "national security", thats just the reason they give us normies. You should be safe in Australia since they actually need to be friends with China.

What? Every country has the right to freely decide which companies are permitted to operate under its jurisdiction, and exercising that right isn’t “warfare” of any kind.

What do you think warfare is?
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