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The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

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Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#681

Post by foldr »

newfriend wrote: post #669
array_key_first wrote: post #630

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, all those sovereign citizens going to their... doctors appointments? Really? This is how far we're shoving the boot up our ass these days? Okay. Look. We have so much evidence of misconduct by ICE that the only reasonable thing to do is just assume there is misconduct. There's no Le Enlightened Centrist take here - these people act like gangs, and have zero respect for Americans citizens or their property.

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A lot of people are looking for fights. In saner countries the police are trained to deescalate situations like that, not go around picking fights with anyone who’s looking for one.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#682

Post by benrutter »

Amezarak wrote: post #417
benrutter wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the article for context: > Palantir is working on a tool for Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) that populates a map with potential deportation targets, brings up a dossier on each person, and provides a “confidence score” on the person’s current address So essentially, the relevant app here is custom built in order to help ICE raids. That's substantially different from generic office tech where ICE happe…

You're going to have to explain to me why it's a bad thing or immoral for the government to be aware of where immigrants who legally need to be deported live.

You were arguing that the use of Microsoft office vs the bespoke Palantir app were equivelent, and I'm simply pointing out that they are very different.

I'm a stranger on the internet, if you don't already think that the USA's immigration raids and camps are a bad thing, I'm probably not going to be the one to convince you otherwise.

There's a lot of good journalism and commentary on the topic, so if you want to have your mind changed, do a web search and read from people much smarter and more knowledgable than me.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#683

Post by alpine_accentor »

_bohm wrote: post #627
alpine_accentor wrote: post #597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course the brutality is not desirable, but to stay in perspective, what would you suggest they do to still enforce the law efficiently but without this forcefulness? They can’t do it the normal way when they are constantly watched and their targets are warned beforehand by whistles and apps and they can’t and shouldn’t back down on enforcing the law.

I don't accept the framing that this is about law enforcement in the first place. I believe that this administration is run by xenophobic right wing extremists who care little for the distinction between legal and illegal immigration. They have weaponized ICE against the Somali community in Minneapolis today, the overwhelming majority of whom are legal refugees. As we have seen, they will not hesitate to weaponize IC…

The American public has sadly elected this administration. I agree with you in principle, especially when legal immigrants become targets. But again, if the actions of this administration are not just morally wrong but illegal there are courts, and in any case there are elections. The people of one state or one city can not obstruct the will of the Union, it is fundamentally undemocratic way of interfacing with the fairly elected government.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#684

Post by NickC25 »

brightball wrote: post #381
rozap wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think what op is getting at is that "no politics" rule is what allowed the frog to boil. So banning political discussion is political in and of itself. I'd agree with your no politics preference if we were in a functioning society that wasn't actively spiralling towards fascism. I recognize that this line is blurry, and that's exactly the reason why no politics zones exist, there is always someone yelling about fas…

> I think what op is getting at is that "no politics" rule is what allowed the frog to boil. But this simply isn't the case. The fact that "no politics" zones exist is a response to the fact that politics is everywhere else . People here aren't blissfully unaware, they're just tired of it and many realize that arguing about it on the internet won't accomplish anything other than wasting time. As I sit here writing th…

>people attack RFK Jr non-stop simply because he's part of the Trump administration and all he's done for his entire life is try to help the country be healthier.

My man, the dude is a former heroin addict that has admitted to eating roadkill. He's pushed the vaccines cause Autism narrative.

Trying to make the country healthier while taking huge gifts from lobbyists who work for industrial scale meat producers? Come on.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#685

Post by no-dr-onboard »

andrewvc wrote: post #361
no-dr-onboard wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a pretty broad generalization, but OK I'll bite. - I think Yarvin has a lot of good points. No one should be ashamed to admit the truth of a matter. I can't stand his voice, I think he has annoying mannerisms, but nonetheless the man has a point and I'm not ashamed (especially by unknown and strange online personas) to say so. - Palantir is objectively a profitable job. I've learned a lot here and the people I…

Can you describe at what point someone would “have blood on their hands” in your view? The problem in my mind is that these systems are exclusively in service of dishonesty. ICE is clearly being used to further political ends. If it were actually trying to stem immigration it wouldn’t concentrate its officers in a state with one of the lowest rates of illegal immigrants. Are you saying you agree with that cause or th…

I don't think I would ever "have blood on my hands" in my current position as a software developer because Gotham and Foundry have valid and real world use cases that are being implemented in ways that actually make people safe across the nation. That's honestly just the truth. Can people, or and organizations use any given product for nefarious ends? Absolutely. Do we try to mitigate it? Very much so.

At the end of the day it sounds like the people making this argument don't really like how ICE is using the product. That's unfortunate, but it seems like the response is making a proximation error though. For those taking this view: Do you yell at farmers for planting, growing and packaging strawberries because you're upset about the obesity crisis and people's craving for strawberry flavored products? Do you run out into the fields and grab them by the shoulders saying "This is your fault!". I'd hazard not.

There is a larger epistemological argument to be had there, but needless to say I'm just not convinced that any sober person believes that qualitatively ascribing moral outrage to a single group of people is really that simple.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#686

Post by Steven420 »

chaps wrote: post #662
Steven420 wrote: post #632

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She wasn't shot for obstructing federal agents. The series of events are as follows: 1. She obstructed federal agents 2. She resisted arrest/detainment 3. She accelerated into a federal agent 4. She was shot

I'm sorry that you think she deserved death.

I don't think that she deserved death. It's unfortunate that you are misrepresenting my comments. I believe that she made a series of bad decisions and was solely responsible for what occurred. I understand that we are living in emotional times but arguing in bad faith does not improve the situation. We should maybe stop this discussion as it doesn't seem that we are getting anywhere. I hope that you have a good day

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#687

Post by pseudalopex »

hvb2 wrote: post #439
agubelu wrote: post #353

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd say a couple of reasons: - The American political system has been very successful in telling its people that the only acceptable way to show discontent and enact change is by voting on elections. - Lots of people are okay with it because it can only happen to the "bad guys", and why would it ever happen to them since they're the "good guys"... right?

> The American political system has been very successful in telling its people that the only acceptable way to show discontent and enact change is by voting on elections. Has it? Because I recall a bunch of people gathering in the wrong building on Jan 6

Very does not mean perfectly.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#688

Post by AngryData »

hvb2 wrote: post #419
afavour wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A broad answer: because America is more violent. The ICE officers are armed and absolutely will use their weapons if given half a chance to. Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think any rioters in countries like Spain go to a protest with a bet real chance on their minds that they might die.

This.... But then I still hear people say that this is what the 2nd amendment is for... Meanwhile, to make sure they have the heavier weapons, law enforcement goes absolutely bananas on what they carry. The second amendment was written in a time when a firearm was a musket.

They didn't just have muskets at that time, repeating firearms were just too expensive to outfit entire armies with them. When you can supply 10 guys with muskets for the same cost as 1 guy with a repeating firearm, you pick the 10 men even if the 1 guy can fire just as fast.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#689

Post by SauciestGNU »

QuantumGood wrote: post #651
asa400 wrote: post #560

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, all of what you say is true. I'm going to try to add a little context as someone who is here on the ground, in the city in question. There is the imminent threat of mass death, and no one here is under any illusions about it. Every ICE agent is armed, and most have ready access to automatic weapons. These are not well-trained members of an elite organization with a storied, patriotic culture. ICE is a personal…

Last night a man was shot by ICE agents, who were (reportedly) attacked with shovel(s) while trying to capture the man, injuring one ICE agent. BEFORE this began we had 7 million people protesting simultaneously nationwide—they are "out on the street". Minneapolis has organized hundreds into rapid response teams against ICE. The killings get more news than the protests, particularly as much of the media has been boug…

>Last night ICE agents were attacked with shovels, injuring one. A man was shot.

We don't know if the shovel thing is true, video has emerged that doesn't show the shooting but does show the victim's family's 911 call in which they claim the agent shot through the door at the fleeing victim.

Re: The Palantir app helping ICE raids in Minneapolis

#690

Post by t-3 »

simianparrot wrote: post #469
andrewvc wrote: post #19

For an idea as to how this gets translated into the reality on the ground here in Minneapolis this is an article on what’s going on from the main newspaper in the state. > In the past week alone, ICE boxed in a Woodbury real estate agent recording their movements from his car, slammed him to the ground and detained him at the Whipple Federal Building near Fort Snelling for 10 hours. A 51-year-old teacher patrolling t…

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Police don't deserve "respect" for being police. They don't get to shoot or brutalize people for "disrespecting" them. They are servants of the people and should humble themselves appropriately and act with that consciousness, not act as though they are noble beings superior to other men, not beholden to earthly law.
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