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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#291

Post by impossiblefork »

janmalec wrote: post #282
nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

How would you form this response to make it less condensending and patronizing? I won't judge if it is patronizing or not because I'm not very good at this kind of thing but would like to understand the issue.

You wouldn't form this response. 'We didn't understand it was this bad, so we've shut down SUMO bot for the Japanese Wiki'.

Re: End of Japanese community

#292

Post by alt187 »

hazn wrote: post #272
nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

Why is it condescending and patronzing? I read it as a person trying to understand the situation.

Basically, this response doesn't acknowledge any of the concerns marsf mentioned.

> I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel [...]

He's not talking about what he feels - but a very real change, detrimental change of workflow. Simply not addressed.

Re: End of Japanese community

#293

Post by Etheryte »

numpad0 wrote: post #147

Isn't it fascinating that despite `while true; do claude --yolo` over a weekend being all it takes to port some project across platforms, LLMs completely fall apart when it comes to speaking grammatical and natural Japanese? Free tier Gemini CLI literally writes Android app for me by just endlessly wondering in English. AGI's here. And it struggles with Japanese. How!?

To be fair, in my experience LLM-s struggle to some extent with nearly every language that isn't English. Compared to many others, English is a very simple language and it has the largest body of material to learn from to boot. The more nuanced a language, the more LLM-s spout garbage.

Re: End of Japanese community

#294

Post by arccy »

yigalirani wrote: post #209

If i was this guy, i would take all the translations and move them to his own independent site with proper promotion so that Japanese speaker can find it easily

that's still promoting mozilla/firefox in a way, something they clearly don't want to do anymore

Re: End of Japanese community

#295

Post by avhception »

vintermann wrote: post #228
jwpapi wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I’m not even sure it’s easy to decide which side is in the right here and it’s not as simple as people think it is. Mozilla is painted bad here, but who knows if the automated translations do not help more people than it hurts the translators. What if the reduced financial pressure allows Mozilla to focus more on privacy and less on ads. Unfortunately these things are really gray, but you really can’t expect a c…

Who knows? Everyone whose native language is not English knows. Seriously, people with this attitude should be forced to run their browser and mail client with a plugin to run everything through a couple of machine translation roundtrips. Give it two months, and I guarantee you'll understand.

My first language is German, but I've got most of my devices set to English. Because of that, Youtube started machine-translating German video titles and audio into English at random. The audio quality is just bad, everything sounds muffled. And the translations are often complete garbage. I absolutely detest this "feature".

Re: End of Japanese community

#296

Post by shaky-carrousel »

alwa wrote: post #16
martin_henk wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

common sense... no real need for digging into japanese culture and so on. really no idea why Mozilla is so disrespectful to it's volunteers. well, that sweet 400m a year from Google... no need for volunteers anymore, eh

For sure. Common sense common, etc… although it does seem relevant that it was specifically a Japanese-language sub-community who were reacting here. I have to say it feels like a really familiar, NGO-flavored disrespect, though: “we’re doing this favor for underrepresented language communities,” regardless of whether they want/need it or not. “There’s only X number of you having to shoulder the load in XX sub-commun…

Enlightened despotism, all over again.

Re: End of Japanese community

#297

Post by surfingdino »

A similar thing is going on at Amazon. Their AI is rewriting perfectly good product descriptions provided by manufacturers and I noticed that I stopped buying there, because I cannot find out what it is that I am buying or how much of it I am buying. I started shopping at sites that sell same products, but do not change manufacturers' descriptions. I have a feeling that post AI bubble we'll be doing a lot of manual cleanup of information "improved" by AI.

Re: End of Japanese community

#298

Post by cmcaleer »

janmalec wrote: post #282
nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

How would you form this response to make it less condensending and patronizing? I won't judge if it is patronizing or not because I'm not very good at this kind of thing but would like to understand the issue.

OP has given all that they need, English is probably not their first language, and the first response was to ask for even more unpaid time and labour (presumably in English) in a format that is likely much more difficult for them to summarise coherent thoughts succinctly in, while addressing zero of their issues. They’re asking for MORE effort of the volunteer to fix their bot’s fuckup.

I’m honestly struggling to think of a more insulting way to respond to this. At least “Fuck off” isn’t pretending to care, it’s fewer words to read and isn’t asking for an indeterminate amount of time from you.

Re: End of Japanese community

#299

Post by jesterson »

port11 wrote: post #278
jesterson wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not everything should be streamlined for a quick call solution If you have a better solution to correct an error or solve a problem than having a call/meeting and openly discuss situation and possible resolutions - I would love to know about that.

The response was condescending and very… American. The call ensures what, that you'll be more receiving to their grievances? That nothing is on the record? A lot of people don't want to jump in calls, ever. The initial response should've validated that the community feels slighted, that they should've brought them onboard for the decision making, etc. Acknowledging the mistake immediately seems like a good start.

Ok, how the perfect reaction would be if you were at charge?

I understand people have sympathy inclination to victims, so everyone would assume the victim is good and other side is bad. I have worked long enough with japanese people knowing they can throw unpredictable tantrums.

As a manager, what would be your best course of action to deal with similar situation?

Re: End of Japanese community

#300

Post by CalRobert »

hazn wrote: post #272
nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

Why is it condescending and patronzing? I read it as a person trying to understand the situation.

It’s the boilerplate every junior account manager uses when they don’t actually have a solution.
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