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Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

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Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#101

Post by ddispaltro »

dgemm wrote: post #60
irjustin wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is tire wear related to the method of power? It could be a steam engine for all it mattered. Accelerating and decelerating, in regards to the tire, don't care what is causing the force.

It's related to vehicle weight, electric cars can be significantly heavier.

My understanding is a model X is 20% heavier than a similar size mid-range suv like a telluride, which I would consider the same size SUV.

The Model X's curb weight ranges from 5,148 lbs to 5,531 lbs, while the Telluride's curb weight falls between 4,112 lbs and 4,482 lbs.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#103

Post by thedougd »

HPsquared wrote: post #57
brtkwr wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just normal driving, it wasn’t quite so bad on our previous car which was a Nissan Leaf (with 30kWh battery) but our current Kia Niro just has a lot bigger batter (64kWh) and it is a lot heavier I suppose, the tyres just don’t seem to last as long. I’m pretty sure I’m using summer tyres all year round (I live in the UK) this was recommended by the dealer

Some tyre compounds wear a lot faster than others (though often with better grip). I wonder if that's contributing. The other thing is poor alignment (especially toe settings) which cause the tyres to fight each other constantly. It can be a very small difference, almost imperceptible but still accelerate the wear. 10k miles is very short for a tyre. Often you can tell a lot from the tyre temperature after a drive: i…

Aren’t higher speed rated tires softer? Maybe try swapping for a lower speed rating unless they plan on driving it at extreme speeds.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#104

Post by pengaru »

idiotsecant wrote: post #86
lokar wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are three things at play here: - evs have a reputation for fast acceleration, and many drivers use it. More wear. - evs are heavy due to large batteries trying to match ICE range. More wear. - evs often come with low friction tires to improve range, they wear faster The second two issues should gradually go away as battery (and charging) tech improves.

Low friction tires wear slower, not faster, on account of being ... Low friction. Friction is what wears tires.

> Low friction tires wear slower, not faster, on account of being ... Low friction. Friction is what wears tires.

They're not low friction tires, they're low rolling resistance tires.

Friction relates to the grip, rolling resistance relates to the heat generated by the deformation of the tire. A less compliant, often narrower tire may wear faster than a more compliant wider one.

It depends.

"Tyres account for about a fifth of the energy required to power a car. They provide friction, so that the vehicle can grip the road, but some of the power supplied to the tyres is then lost as heat. Indeed, Michelin, a French tyremaker, estimates that this “rolling resistance” accounts for 4% of the world's carbon-dioxide emissions. Tyre designers have therefore sought to improve fuel economy by reducing rolling resistance. However, this not only reduces a tyre's ability to grip, making drivers take corners sideways, it also wears out the tyres more rapidly."

from: https://www.economist.com/technology-quarterly/2009/12/02/ro...

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Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#106

Post by Swizec »

ajross wrote: post #88
nine_k wrote: post #41

I suppose the same should apply to hybrid cars, which outnumber pure EVs significantly [1]. The effect comes from converting the kinetic energy back to the battery charge via generation instead of wasting it via friction, which is the whole point of hybrids. [1]: https://www.consumeraffairs.com/automotive/how-many-electric...

To some extent, but not really. Effectiveness of regenerative braking depends on having an extremely large battery that can sink enough current to stop the car. An EV can do that, hybrids at best help the brakes out some. You just can't charge the battery fast enough doing anything but a very slow rolling stop. My model Y can effect a very reasonable stop in traffic without touching the brake pedal except to hold the…

> My model Y can effect a very reasonable stop in traffic without touching the brake pedal except to hold the car at the end.

My manual car could do this 20 years ago. My fully ICE motorcycle can do it today.

I know engine braking is cool but it’s not some amazing new thing only EVs can do. Altho granted it only produces heat and noise in petrol vehicles. But it also makes your heart sing so that’s nice

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#107

Post by jillesvangurp »

brtkwr wrote: post #4

An an EV owner, I can testify that the tyre wear more than makes up for the reduction in brake dust. I’ve had to change tyres every 10K miles.

Switch tire brand and type or get some advice. Whatever you are currently getting isn't the right tire for your car, obviously. You should be seeing much longer lives for your tires. Even with an EV. So, something is off.

And tires of course aren't created equally. There are many different types of tires and they are optimized for different circumstances. If you mismatch your tires to e.g. weather conditions, you are going to have issues. Not just with EVs, but with any car.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#108

Post by snowe2010 »

brtkwr wrote: post #4

An an EV owner, I can testify that the tyre wear more than makes up for the reduction in brake dust. I’ve had to change tyres every 10K miles.

That’s not normal. You’re either doing something incredibly wrong or you’re changing your tires when you don’t need to.

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#109

Post by sockaddr »

brtkwr wrote: post #49
ghushn3 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you doing to your tires that they only last 10k miles? I think that might be a driver error issue, because my EV (a heavier sedan) basically never needed tire replacement barring me running over a screw or something.

Just normal driving, it wasn’t quite so bad on our previous car which was a Nissan Leaf (with 30kWh battery) but our current Kia Niro just has a lot bigger batter (64kWh) and it is a lot heavier I suppose, the tyres just don’t seem to last as long. I’m pretty sure I’m using summer tyres all year round (I live in the UK) this was recommended by the dealer

I'm sorry but I've got two EVs and I'm not seeing anything like what you're reporting. On my first set of tires for a model S I got 60k miles which is longer than I usually like to run tires but they were still in good shape. My driving pattern is about 80% grandpa-mode and 20% speeding to loud music.

I assure you. If your EV tires are only lasting 10K miles you have one of the following cases:

- You are driving VERY aggressively

- Your car has an alignment issue or some sort of torque vectoring problem

- Your tires are absolute shit

Re: Electric cars produce less brake dust pollution than combustion-engine cars

#110

Post by thanhhaimai »

brtkwr wrote: post #4

An an EV owner, I can testify that the tyre wear more than makes up for the reduction in brake dust. I’ve had to change tyres every 10K miles.

I'm not sure I can agree with this. I have 2 EVs, and the tire looks almost brand new after like 10k miles. I think the driving habits matter more than whether the car is EV or not.
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