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Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

smithsonianmag.com

131–140 of 207 posts

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#131
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of similarities when it comes to their tendency towards Corporatocracy and military spending, but it largely ends there. When it comes to taxes, fiscal priorities, rights for individuals, foreign policy, crime and punishment, and of course social issues they are very different and in most cases take the opposite approach. For example, Republicans want lower taxes for the wealthy while Democrats want l…

Democratic voters want those things. It's not at all obvious the party establishment does. The tell is that when Republicans push through their policies, Democratic opposition is weak and ineffectual. Instead of ferocious opposition the Dems send one of their famous sternly worded letters. Since at least 2000 the party establishment has absolutely refused to do any of the things it could do to change this - including…

In my experience this is dead on. People have short attention spans but this has been happning the whole 21st century. In 2008 Obama won the primary despite the best efforts of leadership to nominate clinton. They even scrambled the "super delegates" (delegates who vote for the candidate chosen by senior leadership) hoping that even if Obama won more delegates, they could override the voters choice.

Of course, they failed, and democrats won 2 elections in a row running a candidate labeled a radical socialist. Obama became the only 21st century president to win the poplar vote twice, and the DNC has been trying to drag the party back in the 20th century ever since, blaming their own voters when it doesn't work.

It boggles my mind that they refused to even engage with the "undecided movement", which created a grass-roots get out to vote movement out of thin air. In swing states no less.

The starkest contrast between the two parties is womens rights and to a lesser extent LGBTQ rights. Although I'm not even sure how true this is anymore with so many politicians backing Cuomo, who resigned because an investigation found overwhelming evidence he sexually harrassed and assaulted female employees. And I'm pretty sure people like Chuck Schumer and other centrists view the LGBTQ community as a liability.

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The absolute truth right here. Just go on reddit to see it any time a roadway gets blocked on protest.

Reddit is one of the most as astroturfed platforms out there.

Ghislaine Maxwell, for instance, was a mod on /r/worldnews and one of the most prolific posters.

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#133
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no. The Overton window is so incredibly small in America that normal, run of the mill political positions - either left or right - in the rest of the world are deemed extremist and radical in America. Your Corporate media is the problem.

Things have been far more polarised since the rise of social media. You can blame fox news and cnn or whatever all you want, but given how far the US is from the days of Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, Kennedy etc I don't see how you can simply blame "corporate media".

The Smith-Mundt Modernization Act of 2012 has something to do with it.

Also, a lot of what has happened goes back to the Church Committee and the fact that no meaningful reforms were made after that.

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#134
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The healthcare issue doesn't even make sense. Democrats passes the ACA and were going to create a public option but couldn't gather enough Republican support to ensure it could pass. It was an earnest attempt to provide healthcare for all Americans. The Republicans have done nothing even remotely similar and have only attempted to take healthcare away.

Not at all, they had the votes. The public option was killed by Lieberman.

https://www.commonwealthfund.org/publications/newsletter-art...

The ACA was the same market-based approach as the 1993 GOP healthcare plan. Republicans don't want to touch it because it was their idea.

https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2013/nov/15/ellen-qual...

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#135
post #124

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>Modern conservatism grew out of authoritarian monarchist philosophers Not in the US. Modern conservatism in the US is tied to the individualistic self-reliance movement that rejects the concept of rulers at the top in favor of States' rights and local governance. It is classically liberal with special emphasis on individual autonomy, limited government, economic freedom, political freedom and freedom of speech. You…

You're thinking of classical liberalism, which is something the dominating political factions are highly against. The contemporary meaning of conservatism has been hijacked by the Republican party which does not employ any of those goals.

>You're thinking of classical liberalism

Yes, that is what I typed in my comment above.

>which is something the dominating political factions are highly against.

The current Republican party's platform follows classical liberalism: "Classical liberalism is a political tradition and a branch of liberalism that advocates free market and laissez-faire economics and civil liberties under the rule of law, with special emphasis on individual autonomy, limited government, economic freedom, political freedom and freedom of speech."[0]

You can argue that Trump isn't following that, but it is what the Republican party has incorporated into it's platform for decades.

[0] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classical_liberalism

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#136
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modern conservatism grew out of authoritarian monarchist philosophers of the French revolution. It's inherently tied to supporting an unquestionable social hierarchy with rulers at the top, be they kings, presidents or billionaires. It's not so much as the philosophy is dead, but more that it's finally achieving it's goals. Anti authoritarianism is just a rhetoric device. Just like saying trans people shouldn't be al…

>Modern conservatism grew out of authoritarian monarchist philosophers Not in the US. Modern conservatism in the US is tied to the individualistic self-reliance movement that rejects the concept of rulers at the top in favor of States' rights and local governance. It is classically liberal with special emphasis on individual autonomy, limited government, economic freedom, political freedom and freedom of speech. You…

I think you are a couple decades behind the times. The current Republican party doesn't share those values any more.

The current conservative movement is all in on monarchy, not what you are proposing. Look at Moldbug/Yarvin for their current philosophy.

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#137
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I agree with what you're saying, but it strikes me (& this is particularly poignant on THIS site), that this discussion is somewhat equivalent to the "blub" paradox (aka, how do you explain the power of lisp macro's to someone who grew up only with c & Java). Americans are THAT brainwashed into thinking they really have a real choice at the ballot box, when in reality all choices that matter were weeded out long long…

Due to our current lack of representation. We're an extreme outlier among OECD countries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_legislatures_by_countr...

https://www.reddit.com/r/UncapTheHouse/comments/lklp4h/the_u...

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#138
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're thinking of classical liberalism, which is something the dominating political factions are highly against. The contemporary meaning of conservatism has been hijacked by the Republican party which does not employ any of those goals.

>You're thinking of classical liberalism Yes, that is what I typed in my comment above. >which is something the dominating political factions are highly against. The current Republican party's platform follows classical liberalism: "Classical liberalism is a political tradition and a branch of liberalism that advocates free market and laissez-faire economics and civil liberties under the rule of law, with special emp…

The libertarian party is the only prominent party I can think of that employs anything close to that as a platform.

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#139
American descendants of loyalists often hide their roots.

I know this because my grandmother told me a few years before she passed that her father, a mason and devoted patriot, once confided a scandalous family secret: there are loyalists in our family tree.

Sadly, grandma's research never got her to the root of this claim despite much research, but thanks to online resources and some helpful Canadians, I discovered the truth.

Grandma's grandfather had emigrated from New Brunswick, Canada, during the Civil War, in which he served the Union.

It turns out his great-grandfather was a captain in the Queen's Guard during the American revolution, born in Connecticut. He and his wife and children had fled after the war with other loyalists to New Brunswick, Canada. They suffered many deprivations, although the loyalist commission board compensated them about half their worldly goods they lost in America.

This captain had married a woman whose brother fought for the Americans at Bunker Hill.

While researching my grandmother's grandfather from Canada, I discovered a telling white lie: he would tell the local busybody newspaper that he was visiting his sister in New York. Thing is, he had no sister in New York. Instead, I discovered the Canadian newspapers not long after were reporting he had arrived from America to visit his sister in New Brunswick.

I was blown away by all this rich history, but when I shared my discoveries with all the remaining family on that side, nobody expressed excitement. In fact, the one person who used to call me up to discuss family history, stopped calling me.

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>ICE's actions are wildly illegal. No they're not. Deporting illegal aliens is not "wildly" illegal.

Cherry picking isn't compelling. The parallels between the philosophies of ICE and Israel are noticeable. ie Extraneous damage and laws broken along the way are justified collateral damage by sympathizers. A dark period for the US, indeed.

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