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Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

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Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#91

Post by TheOtherHobbes »

JKCalhoun wrote: post #58
ta1243 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things have been far more polarised since the rise of social media. You can blame fox news and cnn or whatever all you want, but given how far the US is from the days of Clinton, Reagan, Nixon, Kennedy etc I don't see how you can simply blame "corporate media".

Social media is the new corporate media.

Both are true. The end of the Fairness Doctrine normalised the psychotic distortions and lies pumped out by Fox. But the same machine that uses Fox also runs bot farms, astroturfing operations, and curated social media algorithms to normalise even more extreme RW POVs.

And here we are.

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#92

Post by [deleted] »

pwndByDeath wrote: post #50
shortrounddev2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually there's a massive difference between Democrats and Republicans in the US, and that difference matters a lot

Under the lenses of a duopoly, American politics seems like a well oiled machine, oiled by the tears of the constituency, but they are working together. The orange tumor seems to be a new thing that for some reason smells like fundamentalist state.

[deleted]

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#93

Post by lenerdenator »

SavageNoble wrote: post #46
shortrounddev2 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually there's a massive difference between Democrats and Republicans in the US, and that difference matters a lot

Yeah, no. The Overton window is so incredibly small in America that normal, run of the mill political positions - either left or right - in the rest of the world are deemed extremist and radical in America. Your Corporate media is the problem.

Pretty sure the Murdochs are 'Strayan.

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#94

Post by ceejayoz »

alex43578 wrote: post #90
ceejayoz wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can not shop at Costco, not buy beer, and not fly. I can't not interact with law enforcement, which is why we have things like the Fourth Amendment to protect us in those non-consensual scenarios.

And you are protected. These are not unreasonable searches.

I am not obligated to carry papers as a citizen.

If I answer "yep, I'm a citizen", and ICE says at one of the internal checkpoints "well we don't believe you, prove it", what now?

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#95

Post by AnimalMuppet »

jeffbee wrote: post #82
ap99 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The people who are pro illegals either 1) face zero consequences for not enforcing the border laws, 2) illegals themselves, or 3) people who are anti-anything-Trump/Republican. America isn't a town square that the world is somehow entitled to inhabit. It's a country with borders and laws.

In literally every jurisdiction in America, failure to enforce a law is not itself unlawful. It is protected by sovereign immunity at the federal, state, and lower levels as well. Discretionary acts of government regarding how to enforce the law are not subject to judicial interference.

OK, but in the current situation, the laws are federal, and the feds are choosing to enforce them. A state or city preventing the feds from enforcing them is not protected by sovereign immunity.

It seems to me that the most that can legally be done is to require the feds to actually follow due process. (But I thought different yesterday, and I may think different tomorrow...)

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#96

Post by jeffbee »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #95
jeffbee wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In literally every jurisdiction in America, failure to enforce a law is not itself unlawful. It is protected by sovereign immunity at the federal, state, and lower levels as well. Discretionary acts of government regarding how to enforce the law are not subject to judicial interference.

OK, but in the current situation, the laws are federal, and the feds are choosing to enforce them. A state or city preventing the feds from enforcing them is not protected by sovereign immunity. It seems to me that the most that can legally be done is to require the feds to actually follow due process. (But I thought different yesterday, and I may think different tomorrow...)

I think you're misrepresenting the situation and the relationship between the federal and state and local governments. There certainly is not anything in the Constitution that compels a local government to allow a federal agency to house their prisoners in the local jail, or to have offices in the local police station, or to have keys to the coffee room in the local courthouse. For that matter, if the feds happen to have their own offices there's absolutely nothing that dictates that there has to be a local road to that place, that anyone is allowed to drive on.

If a state or local government reckons that their material support for federal activities is limited to a certain extent, that is well within that state's purview.

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#97

Post by bix6 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #81
ap99 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The claim is factual. You might consider a more informative set of news outlets to consume. 77,302,580 votes for Trump. 245M are eligible to vote. Approval has gone down post-election. https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/polls/donald-trump-appro...

Appreciate you boss!

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#99

Post by isr »

dontlaugh wrote: post #57
ceejayoz wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They seem only distinguishable aesthetically to me. This is likely to depend heavily on what positions you care strongly about.

[flagged]

I agree with what you're saying, but it strikes me (& this is particularly poignant on THIS site), that this discussion is somewhat equivalent to the "blub" paradox (aka, how do you explain the power of lisp macro's to someone who grew up only with c & Java).

Americans are THAT brainwashed into thinking they really have a real choice at the ballot box, when in reality all choices that matter were weeded out long long before in the backroom selection process...

Re: Defiant loyalists paid dearly for choosing wrong side in the American Revolution

#100

Post by alex43578 »

aqme28 wrote: post #83
alex43578 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of deporting them is the same as punishing any other crime: to disincentivize committing it. Immigration is arguably even more important to enforce in this manner because of the clear-cut legal alternative.

> Immigration is arguably even more important to enforce in this manner because of the clear-cut legal alternative. We're talking about an immigration policy that is now rounding people up at their legal immigration appointments. This is not about maintaining a legal alternative, and to argue that it is feels disingenuous.

Under expedited removal, an established legal process, these undocumented immigrants are being deported, and are free to pursue their asylum claim in the meantime.

It’s disingenuous to argue that they have any more right to be here than any other undocumented immigrant, just because they happened to be detained at a courthouse.

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