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Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

nytimes.com

461–470 of 1001 posts

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#461

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. The simple answer is that they don't. Alumni are often in powerful positions, but even they are, that is very different from the school itself exerting influence.

A friend is a big Harvard alum. He says that most of his classmates are very unhappy with the direction of the university. So in his circle the alumni may be cheering this on. Maybe not the extremism but the general idea of telling Harvard that it needs to get back to truth-seeking.

The fund-raising email the President of Harvard sent us after the gov pulled federal funding begins: "Dear Alumni and Friends,

In recent weeks, thousands of you have sent encouraging messages, asked thoughtful questions, provided candid feedback, and made generous new gifts to the University. Many of you also shared deeply moving stories of how Harvard changed and shaped your lives. Your outpouring of appreciation and support reinforces the importance of our institution and what it represents. Thank you for your commitment to the University and its ideals." It goes in at length, and as the international recipient of a full-ride scholarship you can bet I was happy join in and double my annual gift. Just as trump was able to raise money from his various trials, so to Harvard draws sympathy from this: and while trumps's supporters are many, Harvard's supporters are rich, so it comes out in a wash and is effectively just melodrama to wind us all up with. The Harvard network is wide and varied so while I am sure there are some like your "big Harvard alum" who are cheering attacks on a major source of their own and their country's prestige, but in my circle of conservative alumni friends I have heard exactly the opposite reaction: even those who were still card-carrying Republicans were already apoplectic about the tariff debacle's impact on their net worth so all this petty virtue-signaling against the alma-mater that launched them on their successful careers hasn't done anything to heal the growing rift...

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#462
post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly what “consequence” are you talking about? Voting by design is protected from retribution.

It's more of an ethical question. Were the people who voted for Hitler bad people because they voted for a bad person? I'd argue that they were. You can't just vote for a horrible person and then say you had nothing to do with the consequences. I'm not the one you replied to, but I assume this is something family related, a la "just because grandpa voted for Trump doesn't mean he's a bad person".

Well, it’s not the popular vote but the electoral college. There may be plenty of people in blue states who voted for Trump because they were fed up with democrats having foisted an unelected candidate on them. They would for the most part know that the vote kinda doesn’t count - e.g. if you live in CA or IL. In this case you’re mostly voting to make a point.

So with the current system, that varies. If it’s a popular vote, then I’d say you have a point.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#463
post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're overthinking this. The university is vocal about keeping its independence. That's enough to warrant retaliation from this president.

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Harvard is not an old money university anymore, none of those schools really are. Old money in the sense you are thinking of it is a liability for Harvard especially since the SFFA lawsuit. There isn't a record that tracks that sort of thing so I would point to admissions statistics generally. You may find old money there but there is no backdoor to let them in easily and that's not the vast majority of students so I would not refer to those schools that way.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#464
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The actual letter explains they can regain status by ratting out their students. It will quietly be done, although likely in a way that make it look as if Harvard hasn't.

'ratting out' how? this implies they did something wrong

Doesn't matter anyway.

Pretty much a guarantee that Harvard will choose to stay the course. This is the quintessential organization that thinks along the lines of, "100 years from now Harvard will still be Harvard. And Trump will be one of the answers on a middle school history exam".

Expect escalation.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which isn’t at all how PhD programs work. This is a supreme dick move to students are going to be forced to leave with an AbD for no other reason than Trumps ego. This is going to burn the children of the most powerful families across the world. Monarchies, dictators, owners of international conglomerates, etc all send their kids to Harvard. Destroying their children’s education out of a fit of malice is going to hau…

Monarchies, dictators, owners of international conglomerates, etc all send their kids to Harvard When you frame it like this... it doesn't sound like such a loss. But yeah, it's not the only way to frame it.

The percentage of Harvard international students who fall into this category is statistically insignificant. It’s not even worth framing.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is quite literally the appeal to tradition or inertia fallacy. Just because they've been around for a while does not mean they are not facing an existential threat. Every structure humans create will one day collapse. This certainly looks difficult for Harvard and could be their end because there is no divine protection, only the decision that will be made by an extremely conservative Supreme Court and the willi…

Things that have been around for a long time are the ones most likely to continue to exist, it's not a fallacy.

They are not, that is expectation of future performance based upon past. Reality is too complex and dynamic for that.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#467
post #258
post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he’s generally intelligent. He’s not going to run the country into the ground I think you're having a hard time grasping the concept of people who care more about rolling back social and cultural change than they care about the United States being a strong and prosperous country. The tension between those priorities in the Republican party has been resolved. The current leaders in the party, including Vance, rose b…

I grew up in a wildly religious family, and was in wildly conservative areas for part of that time. There are a lot of people who want to roll back social and cultural change for good-faith religious reasons. I think are wrong for thinking these things. However, they still also want to have a strong and prosperous nation. My point is not to say that I want the future they want. It's to say I also don't want the futur…

"An imaginary man in the sky told me to hate you" is not a good-faith reason.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#468
post #89

Can someone ELI5 the power networks involved here? I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this. Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence. And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For exampl…

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Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#469
post #89

Can someone ELI5 the power networks involved here? I didn't expect to see Harvard getting smacked around or humiliated like this. Between Harvard, Yale, and possibly a few other schools, I thought they had influence throughout government. And that key figures in government were interested in maintaining and benefiting from that influence. And a lot of that influence seemed aligned with national interests. (For exampl…

It's hard for me to see this as anything more than "they resisted Trump, that pissed him off and now he's further retaliating." Side question I've been wrestling with to whoever feels like commenting: At what point would you look at our current US situation and say "yep, we're now in a dictatorship"

At least a couple of months ago.

Re: Trump administration halts Harvard's ability to enroll international students

#470
post #10

If they can do this to Harvard, what hope do other universities have?

Seems most universities don't really care as long as the money keeps flowing. They jumped quickly on the DEI bandwagon and they will quickly hop off too.

Many already have.
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