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Most iPhone owners see little to no value in Apple Intelligence so far

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Re: Most iPhone owners see little to no value in Apple Intelligence so far

#251

Post by llm_nerd »

layer8 wrote: post #233
llm_nerd wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What do you mean by that? Varied and novel to the programmer . If you're doing the same thing day in and day out it probably isn't much use. If you're like many programmers and you're jumping between libraries and languages and platforms and APIs and domains and spheres, it's immensely helpful. >doing mainstream, well-trodden work for which a company’s/project’s/domain’s inside knowledge isn’t needed A core disconne…

Everything isn’t well-trodden. I’m mostly doing non-glue, heavily domain knowledge-based work. The main issue I’m running into is that explaining the domain and context to the LLM will take significantly more time than just doing the work myself, and also that parts of the necessary knowledge and most of the source code are NDA-protected, so only a local LLM would do.

Sigh.

Everything is extremely well-trodden at the code level. You're taking some inputs and generating some outputs. You're calling some functions. You're manipulating some strings or lists or sets. You're sorting some things or filtering things. You're building a client to a given API. You're doing some messaging and some encryption.

I guarantee that your code isn't remotely as unique or novel as you think it is. Of course on here everyone is 240lbs, 6'2" and benches 350, and their magically novel, super unique code is just too secret. So everyone's special.

If you had to explain the domain and context to these tools, you might be using them wrong.

Re: Most iPhone owners see little to no value in Apple Intelligence so far

#252

Post by williamdclt »

_heimdall wrote: post #19
everdrive wrote: post #4

This is emblematic of the LLM race in general. We’re actively pressured to use co-pilot at work, and it’s crammed into every Microsoft product. I’m thankful that my iPhone is old enough not to use LLMs. Companies are afraid of being left behind in the new arms race, but that doesn’t actually mean that the technology actually present use-cases which most people need. (Worse are the meeting summaries or emails which ar…

> We’re actively pressured to use co-pilot at work Unless you work at Microsoft, that's really interesting to me. Can't say I've ever experienced a boss pushing for me to use a certain developer tool.

I've had a little bit of that in a previous startup. It's easy to explain: there's so much content around "AI is going to increase productivity", and "if your company doesn't use AI it won't be competitive". AI evangelists are everywhere, from the internet to their direct network, reinforcing the idea. Investors are also influenced the same way, and put direct pressure on the leaders.

So it results in the CEO telling everyone that they should be using copilot (amongst other tools) because it'll improve their productivity, without knowing for a fact whether that's true or not.

Re: Most iPhone owners see little to no value in Apple Intelligence so far

#253

Post by oneeyedpigeon »

aftbit wrote: post #201
nixosbestos wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ChatGPT thinks 9.11 > 9.9. I'm in no hurry.

Javascript thinks that 11 > [11,9,1,3].sort() [ 1, 11, 3, 9 ]

You're getting downvoted because your blatant attempt at language wars has a very simple, logical explanation. If you wanted to use a 'gotcha', there are far better examples.

Re: Most iPhone owners see little to no value in Apple Intelligence so far

#254

Post by pera »

llm_nerd wrote: post #227
layer8 wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> especially if you're doing varied, novel work. What do you mean by that? In my experience they mostly help when you are doing mainstream, well-trodden work for which a company’s/project’s/domain’s inside knowledge isn’t needed. Maybe you mean the latter by “novel”?

>What do you mean by that? Varied and novel to the programmer . If you're doing the same thing day in and day out it probably isn't much use. If you're like many programmers and you're jumping between libraries and languages and platforms and APIs and domains and spheres, it's immensely helpful. >doing mainstream, well-trodden work for which a company’s/project’s/domain’s inside knowledge isn’t needed A core disconne…

It's alright that you like LLMs but you don't need to name-call ("luddites", "snowflakes") those who don't find them as useful as you do.

Re: Most iPhone owners see little to no value in Apple Intelligence so far

#255

Post by furyofantares »

gilleain wrote: post #170
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And FWIW, I cannot imagine a programmer, in 2024, that remains dismissive of LLMs or the related tooling. Hi. > While they are grossly oversold by the LinkedIn crowd, That is true. > and are still a far ways from so-called "prompt engineers" replacing devs, Also true. > they're a massive accelerator and "second set of eyes", especially if you're doing varied, novel work. That is not even remotely my experience. Lik…

It's interesting that there is this division between programmers who claim LLMs are super helpful, and those saying they are useless. While it's certainly possible that this divide is based on how 'hard' the problems people are using them on, my current theory is that some people use them like the proverbial rubber duck - in other words, a way to explore the code, and generate some stuff to work on, while thinking th…

I think young programmers who are less heavily invested in their skills and who haven't built a life that's highly dependent on using them are generally more interested in figuring out what programming with LLMs means.

But so are much older programmers who have seen it all, including the obsoletion of many of their skills, and who are not so dependent on continuing to use them as they could retire anyway.

It's more the middle (programmer) age senior programmers who are less likely to see any use.

I've seen the same pattern with artists' interest in generative AI.

But it's complicated because it IS also dependent on what you're doing. So it's hard to know if something is being dismissed correctly due to domain/expertise, or prematurely due to not putting the work in and figuring out what these tools mean.

Re: Most iPhone owners see little to no value in Apple Intelligence so far

#256

Post by blihp »

ARandumGuy wrote: post #23
everdrive wrote: post #4

This is emblematic of the LLM race in general. We’re actively pressured to use co-pilot at work, and it’s crammed into every Microsoft product. I’m thankful that my iPhone is old enough not to use LLMs. Companies are afraid of being left behind in the new arms race, but that doesn’t actually mean that the technology actually present use-cases which most people need. (Worse are the meeting summaries or emails which ar…

What I don't understand is, what benefit is there for 99% of companies to get in on the ground floor of LLMs? If you're not developing your own model, you're effectively just beta testing someone else's model. And if the sales pitch of LLMs being able to do basically anything comes true, wouldn't most companies still get the same benefit if they just wait? It seems like a lot of companies are so terrified of missing…

The thinking is that the trajectory of LLM's will get them an AI flywheel where they can pump money in and get unlimited amounts of intelligence either augmenting or replacing human labor for pennies on the dollar. The business 'thought leaders' on this view it as a largely zero-sum game: get there first or watch your business die as someone else beats you to it.

This has a very late-90's vibe and is quite entertaining to watch.

Re: Most iPhone owners see little to no value in Apple Intelligence so far

#257

Post by llm_nerd »

mrtranscendence wrote: post #237
llm_nerd wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But...I'm not doing the same thing. In actuality I'm saying I'm a fairly typical programmer in a common situation: I work across a variety of languages and platforms and toolings and projects, building solutions for problems. The truth is that extraordinarily few programmers are working on anything truly novel. Zero of the readers of this comment are, in all likelihood. The ridiculous notion that someone has so uniqu…

I suspect you're overstating the degree to which an LLM might be unsuitable for some types of work. For example, I'm a data scientist who works primarily in the field of sales forecasting. I've found that LLMs are quite poor at this task, frequently providing answers that are inappropriate, misleading, or simply not a good fit for the data we're working with. In general I've found very limited use in engaging LLMs in…

I would never recommend an LLM for sales forecasting. It's just the wrong tool for that job.

Re: Most iPhone owners see little to no value in Apple Intelligence so far

#258

Post by beardedwizard »

malcolmgreaves wrote: post #174
beardedwizard wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot to unpack here, but is your code so interesting that it defies understanding by an AST? Code models are trained to semantically represent code, so unless you use semantics that exist outside of software engineering the claim that your code is too unique for llm is false. Maybe you are imagining a case where the entire codebase is generated by a single prompt?

An abstract syntax tree is not semantics. And language models don’t do this kind of explicit syntax parsing and representation at any rate.

I'll admit I haven't seen the training data but some basic googling shows a subset of the labeling is syntax annotations. I am not claiming LLMs parse code in the way you are suggesting, but they certainly have token level awareness of syntax and probable relations which are the roots of any programming language.

Re: Most iPhone owners see little to no value in Apple Intelligence so far

#260

Post by dagaci »

nixosbestos wrote: post #95
llm_nerd wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume they believe in the advantages, to the company, of using these AI tools. Of adding them to the workflow, training their employees, and understanding quickly how it impacts their space. If you just wait and all of your competitors have a workforce enabled and equipped with the best tools, you are at a disadvantage. It's being the company that put off computerization or automation when everyone else went wild.…

ChatGPT thinks 9.11 > 9.9. I'm in no hurry.

And here lies the dichotomy of correctness: Context?

So Indeed 9.11 is chronologically higher than 9.8 and chronology is an extremely common use case.

However a grade F will be given by many.

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