Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

decripto.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

591–600 of 878 posts

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#591

Post by hnpolicestate »

squidbeak wrote: post #312
dns_snek wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of those was @rtnews which is definitely state-sponsored propaganda and remains inaccessible to this day. They cooperated to some degree, but I'll go out on a limb to say that the authorities wanted Telegram to be fully subservient to western government interests.

Eliminating child pornography and organised crime is a societal rather than 'government' interest. And rightly.

Yes but the arrest as absolutely zero to do with both claims listed. Comes off as misdirection.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#592

Post by walterbell »

limit499karma wrote: post #563
walterbell wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the same usability and design as telegram From the recent Tucker Carlson interview of Pavel Durov, Telegram has: - 1 PM (Durov) - 1 owner (Durov) - 30 developers - 0 HR, they hire contest.com winners https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41343845

a very impressive guy. too bad he didn't name the oss libraries.

One could list OSS libraries (if any) that Telegram uses today, then diff against OSS libraries used by other E2EE messengers.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#593

Post by hnpolicestate »

squidbeak wrote: post #343
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what if it is state sponsored propaganda? Most media is biased in some way. It shouldn’t be censored. I want to hear their side of the story too.

In this instance (RT being banned), it's Russia's quite candid strategy to undermine social cohesion in their enemies' societies, using disinformation. Margarita Simonyan and Vladislav Surkov have each bragged about its success. So yes, for social cohesion, when there's a malign external actor poisoning public discourse with the intention of splitting societies, a responsible government ought to tackle it.

Fascist lol.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#594

Post by alwa »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #577
devman0 wrote: post #99

A lot of really terrible takes in this comment section. Telegram didn't have encrypted groups by default, and telegram possessed a lot of content on their servers that they had been made aware was illegal and didn't cooperate. Nothing more, nothing less. The comparisons to other providers is off base because either other providers are cooperating more when they possess actionable, unencrypted information and taking s…

> One cannot legally run a hosted, unmoderated content platform in the developed world, one will always be required to remove illegal materials and turn over materials in cooperation with law enforcement. Should you remove e.g blasphemy which is illegal in many countries including some of what I assume you call "developed world"?

You should certainly have a formal process to respond to those countries’ requests, and you might consider technical architectures that don’t leave you in direct custody and control of that content in the first place.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#595

Post by celdon25 »

archerx wrote: post #272
whimsicalism wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

really? we seal warrants in the US all the time - we don't want people who we are trying to apprehend to always know ahead of time we are trying to apprehend them

The US is on it’s way to becoming a dystopia so not the best argument…

It has already been a form of one for at least 10 years, just happening too gradually for the average person to realize it.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#596

Post by pictur »

mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

[flagged]

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#597

Post by kgeist »

dtquad wrote: post #306
pshirshov wrote: post #245

My opinion would be extremely unpopular, but: 1) The guy was marketing an open-text messenger as an e2ee messenger 2) Because of (1) he was able to moderate it and help law enforcement with locating criminals but he was not cooperating 3) He was extremely cooperative with Russian "law enforcement", as multiple deanonymised activists with leaked chats, contact lists and location history found out So, a hypocrite got w…

Telegram within Russia and outside Russia are two completely different apps with completely different featureset and visible channels. The only "anti-war" sentiment on Russian Telegram is ultra-nationalistic whining about the warfare not being efficient and brutal enough. But outside Russia there are even pro-Ukrainian Russian-language Telegram channels.

I can find and open pro-Ukrainian channels from inside Russia no problem (Zelenski's official channel, UNIAN etc.) Not sure what you're talking about?

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#598

Post by devman0 »

alexey-salmin wrote: post #577
devman0 wrote: post #99

A lot of really terrible takes in this comment section. Telegram didn't have encrypted groups by default, and telegram possessed a lot of content on their servers that they had been made aware was illegal and didn't cooperate. Nothing more, nothing less. The comparisons to other providers is off base because either other providers are cooperating more when they possess actionable, unencrypted information and taking s…

> One cannot legally run a hosted, unmoderated content platform in the developed world, one will always be required to remove illegal materials and turn over materials in cooperation with law enforcement. Should you remove e.g blasphemy which is illegal in many countries including some of what I assume you call "developed world"?

If you are a multi-national with a legal presence in that country you likely have the resources to engage local counsel in answering that question and to assist in understanding the legal risks of various business decisions.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#599

Post by WickyNilliams »

asdf6969 wrote: post #588
WickyNilliams wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> anyone who thinks these goals are reasonable should apply them to equivalent services to realize they’re bad AFAIK these goals _are_ applied to equivalent services. It's just that twitter, FB, Instagram, WhatsApp, and all the others _do_ put in the marginal amount of effort required to remove/prohibit illicit activity on their platform. Free speech is one thing, refusing to take down CSAM or drug dealing operating…

I don’t agree that internet platforms deserve to be in their own special category which is uniquely required to police bad content. The only reason it happens is because it’s not politically or technically feasible to do it when the message comes through another medium. I think it’s wrong on social media for the exact same reason it’s wrong to arrest power companies if a guy staples printed CSAM to a utility pole. Sa…

From what I've read the arrest wasn't related to lack of proactive moderation, but the lack of, or refusal to do, reactive moderation i.e. law enforcement say "there's CSAM being distributed on your platform here" and the owner shrugs

> for the exact same reason it’s wrong to arrest power companies if a guy staples printed CSAM to a utility pole

That seems like a bad analogy. A closer one would be that I rent the pole space to people who I am told by law enforcement are committing serious crime in the open, using the pole I am renting to them. Additionally, I am uniquely capable of a) removing the printouts b) passing on whatever information I have about those involved (maybe zero, but at least I say that). The issue is refusing both. I don't feel they are egregious requests.

(this is not a tacit approval of digital surveillance)

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#600

Post by qingcharles »

throwadobe wrote: post #504
qingcharles wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That only applies if you're the defendant. If you're the witness to a murder and you're subpoena'd to court and refuse to testify then you are committing contempt of court. There was a guy in Illinois who got 20 years (reduced to 6 on appeal) for refusing to testify in a murder. https://illinoiscaselaw.com/clecourses/contempt-of-court-max... Contempt of court usually has no boundaries on the punishment, nor any jury…

That guy needed a better lawyer. He could just have said "I don't remember. Can't say for sure" repeatedly

Yes, "I don't recall" is the oft-heard phrase in the witness stand. I don't remember the specifics of that case and why the guy decided to martyr himself.
Post reply on HN