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Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

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Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#341

Post by firesteelrain »

jeroenhd wrote: post #310
firesteelrain wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apps? I just use it for messaging. I haven’t noticed any major UX issues but I use it for one thing only

Signal for mobile and Signal for desktop are different apps with different code bases. Neither is as good as Telegram's, in my opinion. Signal is fine for messaging. Not bad, not amazing. I'd have a much easier time convincing people to switch to Signal if it would've had a client as good as Telegram's, especially for the desktop application. That said, Telegram has been adding more and more annoying premium features…

Thanks I only use mobile so now I understand

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#342

Post by vanliyan »

Infinity315 wrote: post #47
mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

Because those services don't get shown reports of CSAM and then turn a blind eye to it and do nothing about it. A person witnessing a crime by itself is not a crime. However, a person witnessing a crime and choosing not to report it is a crime.

I have my dead creepy uncle's phone in my drawer right now, and can give you soft core child porn from his instagram. His algorithm was even tuned to keep giving endless supply of children dancing in lingerie, naked women breastfeeding children while said children play with her private part, prostitutes of unknown age sharing their number on the screen, and porn frames hidden in videos.

Nobody's arresting Zuckerberg for that.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#343

Post by squidbeak »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #182
dns_snek wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of those was @rtnews which is definitely state-sponsored propaganda and remains inaccessible to this day. They cooperated to some degree, but I'll go out on a limb to say that the authorities wanted Telegram to be fully subservient to western government interests.

So what if it is state sponsored propaganda? Most media is biased in some way. It shouldn’t be censored. I want to hear their side of the story too.

In this instance (RT being banned), it's Russia's quite candid strategy to undermine social cohesion in their enemies' societies, using disinformation. Margarita Simonyan and Vladislav Surkov have each bragged about its success. So yes, for social cohesion, when there's a malign external actor poisoning public discourse with the intention of splitting societies, a responsible government ought to tackle it.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#344

Post by api »

mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

I strongly suspect there's more to it than just running a chat system used by criminals. If that were the issue then tons of services would be under indictment.

We'll have to wait and see, but I suspect some kind of more direct participation or explicit provable look-the-other-way at CSAM etc.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#345

Post by whimsicalism »

StrLght wrote: post #296
whimsicalism wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

frankly, even with unencrypted chats, any law/precedent requiring that platform providers have to scale moderation linearly with the number of users (which is effectively what this is saying) sounds like really bad policy (and probably further prevents the EU from building actual competitors to American tech companies)

Seems like other platforms without E2EE are managing to do that without any issues whatsoever (e.g. Discord)

discord has hundreds of content moderators, telegram is made by a team of 30 people

i don’t think messaging startups should be required to employ hundreds of people to read messages

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#346

Post by [deleted] »

outside415 wrote: post #322
mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

Watch his interview with Tucker Carlson and you’ll see. He doesn’t acquiesce to government requests for moderation control, censorship, and sharing private user data so they target him. He refuses to implement backdoors as well. In stark contrast to western social media companies.

[deleted]

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#347

Post by asdf6969 »

mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

Everyone knows why and you’re not being naive

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#348

Post by dotancohen »

nabla9 wrote: post #110
itohihiyt wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's a crime not to report a crime, at least not where I live. But facilitating a crime, which is something you could accuse telegram of is.

Generally, there is no general legal obligation for bystanders or witnesses to report a crime, but there are exceptions.

To what jurisdiction are you referring?

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#349

Post by 4ad »

smt88 wrote: post #337
outside415 wrote: post #322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Watch his interview with Tucker Carlson and you’ll see. He doesn’t acquiesce to government requests for moderation control, censorship, and sharing private user data so they target him. He refuses to implement backdoors as well. In stark contrast to western social media companies.

> He refuses to implement backdoors as well. We have no way to know this, and (unlike Signal), Telegram doesn't give us best-effort assurances by doing things like open-sourcing its code.

Open source is irrelevant as the protocol is plain text.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#350

Post by rmbyrro »

intunderflow wrote: post #78

France was the country of the Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, and now you have an autocracy in a semi-democratic vest: - All protests in support of Palestine banned https://www.politico.eu/article/france-gerald-darmanin-aims-... - Head coverings banned - Run a messaging app but the French state finds stuff on it that it disapproves of? You are a Terrorist It's sad to see this backsliding in Europ…

Rights don't give you super power to ignore laws. He failed to follow judicial orders. If he doesn't want to follow French justice orders, then leave France for good.
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