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Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

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Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#231

Post by whatsuphotdog »

4bpp wrote: post #103
mpeg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use telegram for some group chats, but I'm not sure why tech-savvy people would like it so much – messages are not end-to-end encrypted which makes it an inferior choice compared to even whatsapp

For one, it's the only major messenger that has an actually lightweight, well-written and full-featured desktop client rather than yet another boxed-up web browser. I might be more enthusiastic about using the alternatives if I could use the Telegram client.

It's very bizarre to see all these comments downplaying this, or implying the lack of E2EE by default somehow makes it less attractive to the average user than something like Signal.

Most people care about usability and interconnectivity first and foremost because the majority of their messaging activities are not so sensitive that they feel the need to sacrifice those things for mandatory E2EE. Call that shortsighted if you like, but it's far more common than this "encryption or bust" mindset around here.

If signal or some messaging platform could find a way to be E2EE capable all the time, with all the same usability and design as telegram, without unnecessary restrictions on users, and without it being a completely walled off garden from which your data can never be self-extracted, it would win this argument.

Same goes for things like Tutanota and a lot of these other data prisons that are cropping up which create privacy through taking away user agency.

Until then users will pick what they want for their own needs. Telegram met those needs for many.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#232

Post by whimsicalism »

blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #187
loceng wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding the arrest warrant only was created while he was en route; sneaky sneaky..

That’s really dark and dystopian

really? we seal warrants in the US all the time - we don't want people who we are trying to apprehend to always know ahead of time we are trying to apprehend them

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#233

Post by layer8 »

tail_exchange wrote: post #18

I'm genuinely curious to what would happen with Signal if the same bad actors moved to their platform. Would France also be arresting its creators for not properly moderating and giving backdoors?

Signal doesn’t have public groups/channels. Moderation obligations only apply to public dissemination. If I send an email to a private mailing list, the involved email providers have no obligation to moderate its contents.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#234

Post by gosub100 »

TrackerFF wrote: post #77

So let's say I open up a night club. I have to abide the laws and regulations, and make sure things like the following: Minors aren't getting in or being served alcohol, that people aren't selling drugs there, that prostitutes aren't doing business there. If undercover agents come by, and discover that minors are purchasing alcohol - the business will get fined, and likely banned from selling alcohol for some time. I…

So free speech should be regulated like alcohol sales?

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#235

Post by croes »

tail_exchange wrote: post #18

I'm genuinely curious to what would happen with Signal if the same bad actors moved to their platform. Would France also be arresting its creators for not properly moderating and giving backdoors?

I think the difference is that Signal can't provide the data but Telegram could but didn't want to.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#236

Post by [deleted] »

mtlmtlmtlmtl wrote: post #162
unsupp0rted wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit moderates itself so well that even half the legitimate posts get immediately removed by mods or downvoted by users to oblivion

I've actually given up trying to post on Reddit for this reason. Whenever I've tried to join in on a discussion in some subreddit that's relevant(eg r/chess) my post has been autoremoved by a bot because my karma is too low or my account is "too new". Well how can I get any karma if all my posts are deleted?

[deleted]

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#237

Post by whimsicalism »

qingcharles wrote: post #132
throwadobe wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Then I think you're legally required to tell the truth here. Or you can just not respond, at least in the US. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-incrimination

That only applies if you're the defendant. If you're the witness to a murder and you're subpoena'd to court and refuse to testify then you are committing contempt of court. There was a guy in Illinois who got 20 years (reduced to 6 on appeal) for refusing to testify in a murder. https://illinoiscaselaw.com/clecourses/contempt-of-court-max... Contempt of court usually has no boundaries on the punishment, nor any jury…

i think in actual practice you will rarely get contempt for refusing to testify or taking the fifth for questions that could only tenuously implicate yourself in practice.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#238

Post by medo-bear »

marcinzm wrote: post #52
mazambazz wrote: post #29

This seems like the Kim Dotcom situation again. Why are these service providers being punished for what their users do? Specifically, these service providers? Because Google, Discord, Reddit, etc. all contain some amount of CSAM (and other illegal content), yet I don't see Pichai, Citron, or Huffman getting indicted for anything. Hell, then there's the actual infrastructure providers too. This seems like a slippery s…

Because those providers cooperate with authorities and moderate their content to a fairly large degree?

There is a simpler explanation, those providers are controlled by Western governments (read US)

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#239

Post by nicolas_t »

4bpp wrote: post #103
mpeg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use telegram for some group chats, but I'm not sure why tech-savvy people would like it so much – messages are not end-to-end encrypted which makes it an inferior choice compared to even whatsapp

For one, it's the only major messenger that has an actually lightweight, well-written and full-featured desktop client rather than yet another boxed-up web browser. I might be more enthusiastic about using the alternatives if I could use the Telegram client.

Line has a fully featured desktop client that's even more lightweight than Telegram. They also have a white paper that explains their encryption which is decent enough https://d.line-scdn.net/stf/linecorp/en/csr/line-encryption-...

You do need to turn off "display stickers suggestion" before the app becomes nice.

Re: Arrest of Pavel Durov, Telegram CEO, charges of terrorism, fraud, child porn

#240

Post by whimsicalism »

dns_snek wrote: post #172
blackeyeblitzar wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? That’s a really disappointing example of censorship. The state has no business judging the truth.

One of those was @rtnews which is definitely state-sponsored propaganda and remains inaccessible to this day. They cooperated to some degree, but I'll go out on a limb to say that the authorities wanted Telegram to be fully subservient to western government interests.

i should be allowed to watch whatever state propaganda i want, i'm a big boy

15 years ago in the US this would have been uncontroversial

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