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'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

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Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#141

Post by retrac »

lm28469 wrote: post #127
kortilla wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standards of living are far better now than they were 80 years ago.

When people didn't have ipad pros but could afford rent/mortgage and 3 kids on a single paycheck ? We're flooded in useless shit but can't afford the basics. So yes, underfloor heating, smart light bulbs and google maps are great but is it really all there is to life

The real cost of food has steadily decreased for the last 200 years. (Much of the decrease was before 1980, though.) Here in Canada, one hour of labour at minimum wage, will buy you a 10 kilogram bag of flour, or 4 litres of cooking oil. That's enough calories for days. That is insane buying power compared to the historical norm, right into the 20th century.

This is the cost of food as % of household income in the USA over the last century: https://www.aei.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/foodnew.jpg

My grandfather was born in western Europe, in what is today one of the wealthiest countries in the world. He was one of 14 children (of whom 8 survived), born to an illiterate peasant on a rural farm. This was pretty normal. You may have a retroactively gentrified image of what America was like in the 1940s - nearly half of homes didn't have an indoor toilet or electricity at the start of that decade.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#142

Post by lm28469 »

retrac wrote: post #141
lm28469 wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When people didn't have ipad pros but could afford rent/mortgage and 3 kids on a single paycheck ? We're flooded in useless shit but can't afford the basics. So yes, underfloor heating, smart light bulbs and google maps are great but is it really all there is to life

The real cost of food has steadily decreased for the last 200 years. (Much of the decrease was before 1980, though.) Here in Canada, one hour of labour at minimum wage, will buy you a 10 kilogram bag of flour, or 4 litres of cooking oil. That's enough calories for days . That is insane buying power compared to the historical norm, right into the 20th century. This is the cost of food as % of household income in the U…

Ok but again, housing is the exact opposite:

https://substackcdn.com/image/fetch/f_auto,q_auto:good,fl_pr...

and worker productivity vs income:

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Tobias-Arbogast/publica...

I'm 200% positive that both my grandparents and great grandparents had it better in pretty much every aspect (job security, housing, future perspectives) than we currently do. We have unlimited bread and circuses but scratch the surface and we're worse in every other aspects: I couldn't afford 14 kids even if 10 died instantly.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#143

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

fbdab103 wrote: post #32
from-nibly wrote: post #22

No, the market cant handle that right now. A 4 day work week happens because of market forces. Companies don't need to offer perks unless they cant attract enough applicants or retain their top talent. We just saw this last year that companies done need anymore applicants. We are also seeing now that companies don't even care which part of their talent they keep. There might be a class divide coming that would includ…

Management seems determined to mandate RTO. I am not seeing a flood of alternative perks being offered with suddenly being forced to waste 5+ hours of my life each week commuting.

What is it about managing others that attracts ghoulish humans?

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#144

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

imiric wrote: post #26
robbyiq999 wrote: post #17

The ai leaders should come out and say… “Ai advancement is so powerful (as we have been saying and hyping for our shareholders) we now will offer our beloved employees - 4 day workweeks, as the productivity gain has removed 1 days worth of work for the work week” And so will begin our fever dream tech utopia

Productivity gains came from computers many decades ago, yet companies pocketed the difference, and workers got shafted. These changes won't happen until workers demand it, regardless of the technology that comes along.

Basically the only hope is that enough people start starving for the violence to become intolerable for the ruling classes.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#145

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

throttlebody wrote: post #11

> great as a retention tool. Until it becomes standard then its 3 days a week. Im all for it, if you can increase productivity, but it's likely too many people won't be able to.

K cool lets do three days a week

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#146

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

jameslk wrote: post #15

I’m curious what the logical extreme of this is. Why 4 days? Why not 3 days? 2 days? 1 day? No days? When do we hit the equilibrium level between less work resulting in meaningfully less output? Were these jobs ever needed?

>were these jobs ever needed Hehe funny thing is…

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#147

Post by BriggyDwiggs42 »

unsigner wrote: post #98

Let me offer an intentionally shocking counterpoint: The 4-day workweek only appears possible due to the peace divident, and the peace is rapidly coming to an end. We'll need the fifth, and maybe the sixth day of the week to produce shells, missiles, trucks, tanks, ships, planes, and to make up for the lost productivity of those who are on the battlefield.

What we really need to do is find a way to get the large nations to go to perpetual war with each other so that we can all live in miserable poverty and spend that beautiful economic output on mutilating random teenagers for no reason!

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#149

Post by dexwiz »

t-writescode wrote: post #83
dexwiz wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4 day work weeks will be for the elite. While those in service jobs will probably end up with two 30 hour a week jobs. The definition for full time won’t change, but skilled workers will get full time benefits at 32 hours, everyone else will continue to get screwed. It’s kind of like unlimited PTO. It sounds good on paper but some people will receive outsized benefits compared to others.

It doesn't __have__ to be this way. We have had record profits across most of the industries were workers are the most abused. We could legislate their lives better and treated with more respect.

I agree with you, but I imagine I’m a bit more pessimistic. I don’t like anything about the above scenario, but it’s what I believe would be the likely outcome of 4 day work weeks.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#150

Post by melkor73 »

sumedh wrote: post #129
card_zero wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, that guy could be two guys, working four day weeks. I guess they'd overlap on Thursdays, but that's a detail.

> that guy could be two guys Why would a capitalist business owner spend more money?

Because there's a law that says he has to.
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