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'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

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Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#111

Post by bPspGiJT8Y »

Xenoamorphous wrote: post #85

I find it odd that everyone here is talking about productivity. Although I guess it's to be expected since posts about increasing productivity are popular in HN; lots of people here focusing on their careers I suppose. Personally I find we work way too many hours. We spend the good part of 5 days a week (if we're lucky) at work, often literally all the daylight hours, at least in winter. I have to take my daughter ve…

I'd like to believe this too, but given that medieval peasants and antique slaves worked more or less the same hours as we do I'm quite pessimistic. Whenever we automate something they just come up with a new bullshit job that adds nothing to the standards of living, instead of reducing the workload for everyone.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#112

Post by kortilla »

bPspGiJT8Y wrote: post #111
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #85

I find it odd that everyone here is talking about productivity. Although I guess it's to be expected since posts about increasing productivity are popular in HN; lots of people here focusing on their careers I suppose. Personally I find we work way too many hours. We spend the good part of 5 days a week (if we're lucky) at work, often literally all the daylight hours, at least in winter. I have to take my daughter ve…

I'd like to believe this too, but given that medieval peasants and antique slaves worked more or less the same hours as we do I'm quite pessimistic. Whenever we automate something they just come up with a new bullshit job that adds nothing to the standards of living, instead of reducing the workload for everyone.

The standards of living are far better now than they were 80 years ago.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#113

Post by soco »

whythre wrote: post #29
azinman2 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems you think that a 4 day work week is paid as 5 is currently. I don’t see why that’d be necessarily true. In that scenario, it’s kind of like a part time worker and I can see many businesses finding appeal in that.

I bet many businesses would love that. More places of employment start acting like Walmart, where you have to be management to get a full time job with benefits. Everyone else has a shifting 30-35 hour schedule that makes it effectively impossible to have a predictable, normal life outside of work. And no benefits for part time workers either. And the pay is so crappy food stamps are practically mandatory.

Let me understand this: the state is actually indirectly subventioning Walmart with those food stamps right? It allows them to give crappy wages because the difference is supported with food stamps paid directly to the employees. And we still call this market economy and capitalism and and and.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#114

Post by sk11001 »

lm28469 wrote: post #104
sk11001 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Seems you think that a 4 day work week is paid as 5 is currently. It should be. Most people won't accept less pay even if it comes with reduced hours.

I know many people who do it in Germany, above a certain size companies can't really deny you if you ask for part time (unless you're critical to the system and have to be there every single day), of course you get the pay cut that goes with it

But they're doing it voluntarily.

optional 4-day week with lower pay for the employees that want it = ok

employer-enforced 4-day week with pay equivalent to current 5-day week = ok

employer-enforced 4-day week with lower pay = not ok

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#116

Post by doix »

metabro wrote: post #57

I’ve been working 4 days a week informally for a decade. Everyone checks out on Fridays with the exception of the rare fire. I suspect it’s the same for other information workers.

Eh, it's not really the same, because you need to be available. You can't go do something outside and be unreachable even if you're mentally checked out.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#117

Post by vinyl7 »

Another part of this is that companies are in competition with each other. If company A reduces their workweek/hours but their competitor does not, then that might lead to them falling behind. It could be the difference between company A getting their new product out before company B which could theoretically mean the difference between launching a successful product and the company failing.

Whether this is how things actually work out...I'm not sure. It probably does in our short-term move fast economy over an economy that values long term investment, stability,\ and quality over quantity. To be able to switch to shorter work weeks, we also have to switch the economy to be more long-term oriented...which seems impossible after a decade of fake economy with free money getting everyone addicted to short-term games via gambling on startups and stock market.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#118

Post by bravetraveler »

soco wrote: post #115
firesteelrain wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Meaning more employees and then more overhead.

Oh no, the overhead!

Why does it cost me money to make money, damn it?!

Lean into the absurdity already.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#119

Post by bluesign »

roughly wrote: post #54
from-nibly wrote: post #22

No, the market cant handle that right now. A 4 day work week happens because of market forces. Companies don't need to offer perks unless they cant attract enough applicants or retain their top talent. We just saw this last year that companies done need anymore applicants. We are also seeing now that companies don't even care which part of their talent they keep. There might be a class divide coming that would includ…

The entire point of this is that productivity does not go down in a 4 day workweek and retention goes up. As an employer, you get the same amount of output, happier employees, and better retention. Everyone says they’re a data driven business until the data tells them something they don’t believe.

I think the issue here is, retention goes up because not everyone is doing it. ( so people have motivation to stay )

Also productivity does not go down, because not everyone is doing it. ( so people have motivation to not get fired )

In normal conditions, expected would be some drop in productivity but bigger gain in retention.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#120

Post by juliogreff »

dh2022 wrote: post #50

If my company would switch to 4-day workweek I would use the extra time to work another job.

Fun fact: a previous company I worked for denied my request for a 4-day workweek precisely because they were scared I'd work another job. I honestly just wanted more time to ride my bike.
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