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'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

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Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#121

Post by bluesign »

marcus_holmes wrote: post #89

When I was nomadding around SE Asia, I worked 5 hours a day, 6 days a week (so I had time to do all the cool stuff in the places I was travelling through). That worked really well - I was at least as productive as I normally am in a standard 40-hour week. A decade ago I was working 5 days a week from an open-plan office, and mentally clocked out around 2pm each day. Office culture meant I was just moistening a chair…

For me personally, when no commute, even 6x4 hours is much better than 4x8 hours ( 1 hour spent at lunch etc, effectively 4x7 maybe 4x6 anyway )

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#122

Post by llamaimperative »

bPspGiJT8Y wrote: post #111
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #85

I find it odd that everyone here is talking about productivity. Although I guess it's to be expected since posts about increasing productivity are popular in HN; lots of people here focusing on their careers I suppose. Personally I find we work way too many hours. We spend the good part of 5 days a week (if we're lucky) at work, often literally all the daylight hours, at least in winter. I have to take my daughter ve…

I'd like to believe this too, but given that medieval peasants and antique slaves worked more or less the same hours as we do I'm quite pessimistic. Whenever we automate something they just come up with a new bullshit job that adds nothing to the standards of living, instead of reducing the workload for everyone.

Land and therefore the cost of everything that depends on it (i.e. everything) just gets more expensive.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#123

Post by llamaimperative »

kortilla wrote: post #112
bPspGiJT8Y wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to believe this too, but given that medieval peasants and antique slaves worked more or less the same hours as we do I'm quite pessimistic. Whenever we automate something they just come up with a new bullshit job that adds nothing to the standards of living, instead of reducing the workload for everyone.

The standards of living are far better now than they were 80 years ago.

But nowhere close to as good as they hypothetically should be given the explosion in productivity.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#124

Post by Drakim »

kortilla wrote: post #112
bPspGiJT8Y wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to believe this too, but given that medieval peasants and antique slaves worked more or less the same hours as we do I'm quite pessimistic. Whenever we automate something they just come up with a new bullshit job that adds nothing to the standards of living, instead of reducing the workload for everyone.

The standards of living are far better now than they were 80 years ago.

Imagine if the standards of living goes up even more, we have x50 better medicine, huge houses for everybody, fine silken clothes, wall-sized TVs, and gourmet truffle soup every day of the week. But everybody is still working long hours, and only get to see their kids in the morning and a few hours before bedtime.

But no worries, even more improvements are on the horizon. Within 20 years, you'll get all that, but it's gold plated, and encrusted with diamonds too. People live until they are 200, houses rotate to always face the sun, and TVs are now so big they wrap 360 degrees around the entire room's walls. But you still gotta spend most of your waking hours in an office, copying numbers from one excel to another.

Is that really that good of an improvement? Do we measure quality of living purely in material wealth, and not in the time we get to spend with loved ones, or our passions?

In the distant past, a huge proportion of our lives was spent just making sure you had food to survive on. The part where we "spend a huge portion of our lives" seems to stick, even though food is no longer scarce.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#125

Post by voisin »

Drakim wrote: post #124
kortilla wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The standards of living are far better now than they were 80 years ago.

Imagine if the standards of living goes up even more, we have x50 better medicine, huge houses for everybody, fine silken clothes, wall-sized TVs, and gourmet truffle soup every day of the week. But everybody is still working long hours, and only get to see their kids in the morning and a few hours before bedtime. But no worries, even more improvements are on the horizon. Within 20 years, you'll get all that, but it'…

I don’t disagree with your statements, but anyone at anytime can choose to opt for more time and less gold plating. There are lots of people making these choices - check out the r/FIRE, r/LeanFIRE, r/FatFIRE communities on Reddit.

Check out the book “Your Money or Your Life” https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/78428.Your_Money_or_Your...

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#126

Post by diffeomorphism »

Jensson wrote: post #107
hkt wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why people also talk about retention. Personally I'd think of the extra day as rent paid on not having to hire and onboard someone new.

Why would retention change if everyone works 4 days a week? At that point it is no longer a perk, you get it everywhere, so retention should be as before and the advantages of 4 day weeks is now gone.

Because people that are happy at their job tend to stay. Your point is "so what if they are miserable right now? They will be miserable elsewhere, too". That might be, but people will still try to get away from you, hoping it is better elsewhere.

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#127

Post by lm28469 »

kortilla wrote: post #112
bPspGiJT8Y wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd like to believe this too, but given that medieval peasants and antique slaves worked more or less the same hours as we do I'm quite pessimistic. Whenever we automate something they just come up with a new bullshit job that adds nothing to the standards of living, instead of reducing the workload for everyone.

The standards of living are far better now than they were 80 years ago.

When people didn't have ipad pros but could afford rent/mortgage and 3 kids on a single paycheck ?

We're flooded in useless shit but can't afford the basics. So yes, underfloor heating, smart light bulbs and google maps are great but is it really all there is to life

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#128

Post by sumedh »

globular-toast wrote: post #92
Xenoamorphous wrote: post #85

I find it odd that everyone here is talking about productivity. Although I guess it's to be expected since posts about increasing productivity are popular in HN; lots of people here focusing on their careers I suppose. Personally I find we work way too many hours. We spend the good part of 5 days a week (if we're lucky) at work, often literally all the daylight hours, at least in winter. I have to take my daughter ve…

People spend all their lives doing pointless work, accumulating wealth, then have nothing to spend it on so buy something like a car they don't need (like an SUV). It's odd there aren't more people questioning this. Wouldn't they rather enjoy their lives while they're young and not worry about having tons of disposable income when they're old? I guess there's something about security that drives people to the latter.…

> not worry about having tons of disposable income when they're old?

Who is going to take care of you if you are sick?

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#129

Post by sumedh »

card_zero wrote: post #37
flax wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to have individuals working 24/7 to have things open 24/7.

Yeah, that guy could be two guys, working four day weeks. I guess they'd overlap on Thursdays, but that's a detail.

> that guy could be two guys

Why would a capitalist business owner spend more money?

Re: 'It's better for humans in general': The 4-day workweek is closer than you think

#130

Post by pcthrowaway »

fulafel wrote: post #56
esafak wrote: post #10

I wonder if productivity is ever going to increase to the point where we work one day a week.

Productivity has skyrocketed, we crossed ~ 20% of current GDP per capita around middle of the last century and we would be able to get by quite well with that. There would need to be many policy and cultural changes to do it but it's definitely collecitively a choice today more than anything else.

It's not "collectively a choice", the gains are accumulating at the top, and the fat cats have no reason to tell people they can work less now.
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