Sweden Is a NATO Member • Hacker News Board

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#241

Post by TulliusCicero » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 6:09 PM UTC

dragonwriter wrote: post #185

hnthrowaway0328 wrote: post #141

It would be nice if EU seek independency from US eventually.

The EU is independent of the US. There's a difference between alliance and dependency (and EU isn't coextensive with European NATO, but they are pretty close.)

In most ways yes, but militarily there's definitely some dependence on the US. A lot of European militaries were found to have relatively bare cupboards when the time to donate things to Ukraine came. Germany's Army Chief straight up said the army wasn't capable of fulfilling its mission.

(And yeah the US struggled with artillery shells too, the difference is that the US has so much airpower it had a legit reason to believe it wouldn't need them very much)

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#242

Post by dataflow » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 6:09 PM UTC

thatwasunusual wrote: post #195

dataflow wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? It says "will assist" and "such action as it deems necessary". That doesn't obligate them to provide a military response. What makes you believe otherwise?

Because no member wants to be seen as unreliable, risking their own security in the future, so everyone will in practice assist in any way they can.

Or they might calculate WWIII isn't worth it? Imagine Russia attacks Latvia. Would the US really risk getting into direct conflict with Russia over it?

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#243

Post by unnouinceput » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 6:10 PM UTC

firebat45 wrote: post #220

pandemic_region wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't forget he also raised awareness for Europe's dependency on Russian fossil fuels and accelerated there move to green energy across the world. What a guy!

He's almost as good as the guy that killed Hitler. Really doing the world a favor.

Isn't, at least officially, Hitler the guy that killed Hitler? Or that was the joke and it flew over my head?

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#244

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 6:10 PM UTC

bombcar wrote: post #123

hbrav wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most significant change is that any attack on Sweden would require other NATO countries to come to Sweden's defence, and vice versa. It means that Sweden would also take part in more joint training exercises, share more intelligence, etc. with other NATO members.

To be precise Article 5 requires the countries to consider an attack on Sweden to be an attack on them, and they shall respond as they see fit. In an actual attack, they may see fit to do nothing - it will come down to the circumstances. In other words, if Russia attacks Sweden and the US decides to ignore it, there's not much NATO can do but kick the US out.

[deleted]

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#245

Post by lawn » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 6:10 PM UTC

yawnxyz wrote: post #62

Yes, this is a great way to fight against Putin, but... As a Swedish citizen, I think this means in the future Sweden's forces will be dragged into another Iraq-like war down the line. Sooner or later the US or NATO will be the Putin of today, and I don't look forward to that.

NATO is a defence alliance, how are you going to spin that into invading a country like Iraq?

We can also leave NATO if it somehow transforms into Putin.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#246

Post by __loam » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 6:11 PM UTC

renegade-otter wrote: post #108

Being a NATO member gives a nation more security than nuclear weapons, effectively. Nuclear states can and HAVE gone to wars - but no one wants to mess with the devastating conventional power of NATO. After the recent gutting, Russia has a few dozen SU-34s that can fly. NATO has thousands of planes.

It also just got a lot more Gripens.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#247

Post by tharmas » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 6:11 PM UTC

apercu wrote: post #42

stronglikedan wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When, not if, and that's a good thing. I don't share your alarmist view. I think the other members of NATO will just start doing their fair share, as they should.

I imagine that the actual truth to the situation is far more complicated than either of us understand and that NATO provides substantial benefits to the United States.

[flagged]

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#248

Post by dguest » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 6:11 PM UTC

klipt wrote: post #116

RecycledEle wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bigger alliance is harder to defeat in war. Also, a bigger alliance requires each member to contribute fewer troops to manage a common defense. Sweden is a fairly wealthy country that can contribute the required amount to NATO. Sweden's ports are beneficial in a potential Arctic conflict. Finally, Sweden does not bring any new potential conflicts/enemies with it.

Things are looking up for NATO! Except the part where Trump said he'd pull the US out of NATO if elected.

I'm too lazy to look this up. Can he do that?

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#249

Post by roschdal » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 6:12 PM UTC

Yeah, the expansion of NATO to the east is so successful and peaceful, best thing ever.

Re: Sweden Is a NATO Member

#250

Post by nordsieck » Thu, Mar 07, 2024, 6:12 PM UTC

hnthrowaway0328 wrote: post #141

It would be nice if EU seek independency from US eventually.

> It would be nice if EU seek independency from US eventually.

That would require European countries to actually fund their militaries at a level where they could realistically have independence. Which isn't going to happen over the long term.

The only reason for the current surge in funding is the active war in Europe. Once that is settled, however it happens, European countries will go back to their old ways (with the possible exception of countries that actually border Russia/Belarus).