Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Goodbye Auth0

joshcanhelp.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 281 posts

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#121

Post by rglullis »

sokoloff wrote: post #84
rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

At my second job, the company terminated an employee for poor performance and intended to let them stay on a short term to wrap things up and then start their severance. The first evening (or maybe the first Friday evening), that dev stayed late in the office and deleted the source trees from as many machines as he could get access to (this was 1996, so most machines didn't have logins) and wiped the hard drive on th…

Is that the lesson to learn here, really? An employee makes a stupid thing and the leadership didn't look into its security practices to avoid this type of attack?

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#122

Post by rglullis »

StreetChief wrote: post #116
rglullis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Companies don't have to send fired employees home immediately, they only do this because they don't trust the individual to act appropriately. Companies don't have agency or feelings. If company leaders expect people to do their jobs properly only because they are getting paid, it's already an institutional failure, because it's not taking into account that individuals are fallible. If the company does not have an…

> when shit hits the fan all its leaders can do is to find blame in the individual. Or they could, like, take responsibility for their actions that led them to that point?

They could, but do they?

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#123

Post by matwood »

activitypea wrote: post #80

> I was still caught a bit off guard. What about that high-priority project I was helping to lead? What about the training I was scheduled to deliver? What about the offsite next month? This is the part that always confuses me. I understand why they treat employees as disposable, but it's like they don't care about continuation of business either. I feel like everytime I've quit a job, I cared more about my successio…

Everyone is replaceable, even the CEO. Some plates will drop, the people left pick up the pieces and keep going.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#124

Post by Draiken »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #22
rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

> I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. Personal bias? Layoffs/Firing etc. in Austria in IT look very much the same. You're locked out, your devices are taken, you are escorted out of the office. That has nothing to do with being afraid, it's just a clear cut process. Why make it ambiguous?

I agree it's a process (not very clear everywhere though), but the reasoning is 100% being afraid of what the employees can do.

If the company could keep reliably profiting off of the employee during its notice period, why wouldn't they? It's all about mitigating the risk.

Personally when I left, I've always spent weeks finishing off what I was doing, adding/updating documentation and generally passing on any knowledge that could potentially leave with me. They allow that because they're not afraid I'm gonna delete their source code, since I'm choosing to leave. If the company didn't see risk after layoffs, that's how they would react.

And let's be real here: this is mostly a threat when layoffs are not justified. So to keep it simple and streamline the process, they treat every layoff the same.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#125

Post by rglullis »

dariosalvi78 wrote: post #114
rglullis wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans don't understand/trust/respect institutions. Because they don't trust institutions, if someone that is working for a company and does something bad, or is shown to be corrupt, it will affect the public perception of the company , not of the individual. Also, because Americans don't trust institutions, a lot of the internal processes and cultural values are upheld by the individuals, and how strongly this is…

Americans don't trust _public_ institutions. They do trust and love the private ones, especially when they are humongous corporations.

The ones that they get to be direct consumers and where they have some choice, sure.

But I doubt that you see people saying that they love Equifax, Healthcare Insurance companies, Comcast...

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#126

Post by doublerabbit »

buro9 wrote: post #99
morgante wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with being "people-first" or not. Leaving terminated employees with access to sensitive systems is poor security practice.

That wasn't my point, my point was firing someone via email is heartless, and that employers should have the decency to speak to a person and let them know why. The system access can still be removed at the same time.

Welcome to job life. What are you expecting from a company when they want to shun you out the door, hugs and kisses?

Companies never value you. Your just a ticket with a number associated to it. Harsh but prove me wrong.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#127

Post by brk »

rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

>I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one.

Not trying to single you out, but these kinds of comments always baffle me.

Around the world, we have different religions, cultures, languages, customs, currencies, holidays, skin colors, legal structures, etc. And then someone is confused why people on the other side of the world don't do things the same way.

For me, as a product of all of the things above in the US, if a company tells me they no longer need my services, then I am not going to keep working for a while. That doesn't mean I am going to be spiteful, but just that I acknowledge their decision, and so I will move on to something else. To me, continuing to work alongside (former-ish) teammates in a dead man walking situation seems strange, but I can see why it might work in Europe.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#128

Post by ianhawes »

rglullis wrote: post #121
sokoloff wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At my second job, the company terminated an employee for poor performance and intended to let them stay on a short term to wrap things up and then start their severance. The first evening (or maybe the first Friday evening), that dev stayed late in the office and deleted the source trees from as many machines as he could get access to (this was 1996, so most machines didn't have logins) and wiped the hard drive on th…

Is that the lesson to learn here, really? An employee makes a stupid thing and the leadership didn't look into its security practices to avoid this type of attack?

The lesson here is that once an employee or contractor is terminated, you remove all access to internal infrastructure. That's it. That is the lesson.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#129

Post by herval »

cmbothwell wrote: post #120
rglullis wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Born and raised in South America. Lived in the US for ~5 years (2008-2013). Living in Germany since 2013. :)

I would also posit that this inclination towards individuals over institutions in the US extends to Central and South America.

definitely not Brazil, at least

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#130

Post by nucleardog »

progbits wrote: post #62
morgante wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with being "people-first" or not. Leaving terminated employees with access to sensitive systems is poor security practice.

You trusted them with that access yesterday, and they are not being fired for cause (eg. stealing company secrets), so why don't you trust them today? This sort of thing only really happens in US companies (see lots of other comments in this thread on this), and maybe that should be a clue this isn't "security practice".

> You trusted them with that access yesterday, and they are not being fired for cause (eg. stealing company secrets), so why don't you trust them today?

Yesterday, behaving in a manner that would result in your continued employment had clear, short term incentives like receiving further income. The company had leverage in that if you were to behave inappropriately they could terminate your employment and take away that income.

Today, the company has terminated your employment and taken away that income. The only reasons to not be malicious are long term consequences (future employment prospects, criminal charges, etc) and personal values.

People in general are notoriously bad at aligning their actions with long term incentives or consequences (especially consequences). You're testing this out in this employee for the first time in a situation where they're under much higher anxiety and stress than normal and you no longer have any real leverage over them.

I'd imagine the difference in the US has more to do with the short notice period and lack of social safety net making being terminated a much more impactful event for the employee.

Post reply on HN