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Goodbye Auth0

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Re: Goodbye Auth0

#91

Post by prmoustache »

rjzzleep wrote: post #41
throwaway11073 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure - in most EU countries, especially to the east, they get some additional money (usually 1-6 months of wages + unused vacation days). That's about it. I don't know why people think it's not possible to fire people in the EU, but it is and it's a normal thing. It just costs some money.

It is possible, but if someone does whatthe parent described like that in Europe, you get more than that and you could walk out of there with your laptop and nobody would be able to stop you, and if they did, you'd probably get more than 6 months of wages. There is a process to firing. EVEN in the US there is a process of firing. The big lie is that most people are fed, is that in "right to work" states you have no l…

The fact there is a process doesn't mean you get guaranteed access to building and infrastructures.

You are technically still employed and paid but the company can refuse to let you step inside or connect to the network. You also can't work for another company without their agreement until the grace period is over.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#92

Post by madsbuch »

sokoloff wrote: post #84
rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

At my second job, the company terminated an employee for poor performance and intended to let them stay on a short term to wrap things up and then start their severance. The first evening (or maybe the first Friday evening), that dev stayed late in the office and deleted the source trees from as many machines as he could get access to (this was 1996, so most machines didn't have logins) and wiped the hard drive on th…

Given that this is the US, he was probably sued and is still in prison.

Also, this is an insanely childish way to act – again to the original commenter. It it seems like there is a difference in US an EU culture here.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#93

Post by tojaprice »

diggan wrote: post #45
throwaway11073 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure - in most EU countries, especially to the east, they get some additional money (usually 1-6 months of wages + unused vacation days). That's about it. I don't know why people think it's not possible to fire people in the EU, but it is and it's a normal thing. It just costs some money.

> I don't know why people think it's not possible to fire people in the EU, but it is and it's a normal thing. It just costs some money. It varies across Europe as well. Some countries, like Sweden, have more protections than others (no matter if union member or not), as an example. You cannot fire someone unless they demonstrably neglect their work duties and the firing overall needs to be objectively justified. The…

In the UK, you can be let go for essentially any reason (excluding protected statuses) for the first two years (first one year in Northern Ireland).

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#94

Post by _heimdall »

rglullis wrote: post #24
rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

Americans don't understand/trust/respect institutions. Because they don't trust institutions, if someone that is working for a company and does something bad, or is shown to be corrupt, it will affect the public perception of the company , not of the individual. Also, because Americans don't trust institutions, a lot of the internal processes and cultural values are upheld by the individuals, and how strongly this is…

Well I am an American that doesn't trust institutions by default, so to that end I fit your description here. I'm not sure how universal it is though, we have plenty of institutions here that people do trust and depend on every day.

In this context, I think it's less about an individual's trust of institutions and more the institutions mistrust of the individual. Companies don't have to send fired employees home immediately, they only do this because they don't trust the individual to act appropriately. There's probably a bit of a death spiral there, where both sides continue to mistrust each other further, but the individual lacking trust of institutions alone wouldn't get them locked out as soon as they're notified that they've been fired.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#95

Post by Foobar8568 »

rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

I have seen a company firing one of their developer who went to Europe on a 2weeks business trip to assist a NGO to implement their tool. One day, said developer couldn't access their emails and was wondering why. At the end, it was the NGO/client who let the dev informed.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#96

Post by prmoustache »

nu11ptr wrote: post #52

Do a lot of companies actually fire people via email? That seems very cold! Most of the companies I've worked for they will call you into a meeting with your boss and HR and then have security walk you out after gathering your things. Not ideal, but at least has a human element. If this person was remote then it could at least be done via phone.

I am pretty sure the guy was working remotely.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#97

Post by _heimdall »

EdSharkey wrote: post #70
dm03514 wrote: post #5

Auth0 truly did an amazing job on hiring for culture, being transparent and living their values. The pre-acquisition Glassdoor reviews were astounding and back this up. For myself, working at auth0 was truly life altering. It was the first time I was in a long standing multi-national environment. It was the first time I was deeply exposed to other cultures and ways of living. As a side effect of working at Auth0, Thi…

Word choice can help your thinking. We all receive different struggles and decide how to respond. The way you describe your 'luck', I read as "random good fortune" tinged with some guilt for being a 'have' when there are so many 'have-not's. I prefer 'blessed', and not in the corny #blessed way, to describe my condition. To me, I was given much because so much is expected of me by God, by universe and by my higher se…

> I prefer 'blessed', and not in the corny #blessed way, to describe my condition. To me, I was given much because so much is expected of me by God, by universe and by my higher self.

How do you avoid this leading to a feeling that you, and anyone else "blessed", is more important that others? Should we really assume that the condition of one's life is an indicator of both the existence of a higher power and of that person's relative importance to it?

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#98

Post by rglullis »

atemerev wrote: post #89
rglullis wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans don't understand/trust/respect institutions. Because they don't trust institutions, if someone that is working for a company and does something bad, or is shown to be corrupt, it will affect the public perception of the company , not of the individual. Also, because Americans don't trust institutions, a lot of the internal processes and cultural values are upheld by the individuals, and how strongly this is…

Well, there are not many countries where people actually trust institutions (and, above all, the government). Perhaps Germany, Nordic countries, Netherlands, Japan, maybe a few more. In Switzerland, we work with the government, and are generally OK with it, but proceed cautiously, as if it could explode any second. In Spain and France already, government is considered an inefficient nuisance. In many places in South…

Ok, but there are two institutions here: corporations and governments. Who do you think that Southern Europeans relatively trust more of those?

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#99

Post by buro9 »

morgante wrote: post #57
buro9 wrote: post #36

This bit at the end: > and learned an enormous amount about what it means to build and run a people-first company Seems at odds with this bit at the beginning: > And then it happened, I got the email. Slack didn't work. My laptop restarted and came back with accounts missing. It really, actually happened. And even though the writing seemed to be on the wall, I was still caught a bit off guard. This industry (not spec…

It has nothing to do with being "people-first" or not. Leaving terminated employees with access to sensitive systems is poor security practice.

That wasn't my point, my point was firing someone via email is heartless, and that employers should have the decency to speak to a person and let them know why.

The system access can still be removed at the same time.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#100

Post by [deleted] »

rad_gruchalski wrote: post #63
glitchalumni wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure which part of Europe you are referencing, but from the layoffs I've seen and heard of (DACH) the procedure was always to lock the person out immediately after the layoff call/meeting. If that's good or bad is rather subjective, personally I would rather walk out the door right after. One might have enough time to send their farewells, but that's about it - you are still getting payed until the end of the not…

> you often also have to sign an NDA you don't have to, that they arm wrest you, sure, but you don't have to do anything

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