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Goodbye Auth0

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Re: Goodbye Auth0

#81

Post by gcbirzan »

rjzzleep wrote: post #41
throwaway11073 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure - in most EU countries, especially to the east, they get some additional money (usually 1-6 months of wages + unused vacation days). That's about it. I don't know why people think it's not possible to fire people in the EU, but it is and it's a normal thing. It just costs some money.

It is possible, but if someone does whatthe parent described like that in Europe, you get more than that and you could walk out of there with your laptop and nobody would be able to stop you, and if they did, you'd probably get more than 6 months of wages. There is a process to firing. EVEN in the US there is a process of firing. The big lie is that most people are fed, is that in "right to work" states you have no l…

At will, right to work is union related.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#82

Post by rglullis »

cmbothwell wrote: post #77
rglullis wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Americans don't understand/trust/respect institutions. Because they don't trust institutions, if someone that is working for a company and does something bad, or is shown to be corrupt, it will affect the public perception of the company , not of the individual. Also, because Americans don't trust institutions, a lot of the internal processes and cultural values are upheld by the individuals, and how strongly this is…

This is a very incisive and insightful take and really distills some large cultural differences between Americans and Europeans down to its essence. Can I ask if you are American or European? How did you come about this insight?

Born and raised in South America. Lived in the US for ~5 years (2008-2013). Living in Germany since 2013. :)

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#83

Post by marcinzm »

progbits wrote: post #62
morgante wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has nothing to do with being "people-first" or not. Leaving terminated employees with access to sensitive systems is poor security practice.

You trusted them with that access yesterday, and they are not being fired for cause (eg. stealing company secrets), so why don't you trust them today? This sort of thing only really happens in US companies (see lots of other comments in this thread on this), and maybe that should be a clue this isn't "security practice".

> only really happens in US companies (see lots of other comments in this thread on this)

That's not what the comments say.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#84

Post by sokoloff »

rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

At my second job, the company terminated an employee for poor performance and intended to let them stay on a short term to wrap things up and then start their severance. The first evening (or maybe the first Friday evening), that dev stayed late in the office and deleted the source trees from as many machines as he could get access to (this was 1996, so most machines didn't have logins) and wiped the hard drive on the revision control server.

That experience (and the amount of loss and wasted time in reconstructing as best we could) heavily colored my view of the risk-reward ratio of letting terminated employees have continued access to premises and systems.

If I have any doubts about the future behavior of someone who just received very shocking, disorienting, and angering news, it is my job to protect the company and other employees much more than it is to allow the terminated employee continued access.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#85

Post by victor106 »

It’s not talked about as much but one of the main reasons for American and European software developers being let go is outsourcing to places like India.

Companies save 90% of the cost of hiring someone in America.

Very soon we are going to see what happened to manufacturing jobs happen to software jobs in the US unless the government steps in. Unfortunately I don’t see anyone talk about it

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#86

Post by hasty_pudding »

nusl wrote: post #31
hasty_pudding wrote: post #23

I feel like Auth0 is one of those products that shouldn't exist. Youre paying ALOT for what you can do with a JWT.

Auth0 does a lot more than just a JWT. Sure, it's more expensive and probably not something you'll need, and if you do; why? But it's definitely not just a JWT.

like what?

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#87

Post by tialaramex »

CogitoCogito wrote: post #58
tgv wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had that experience with a US mother company of a European subsidiary (of a subsidiary). CEO swings by, as he does once per year, and fires the whole dev team, including the local branch manager, because they'll take over in the US (they couldn't, and then bought a competitor instead; the original product is still running, 15 years later), and we were told to leave the building. I had a program building something f…

I was laid off in Sweden by an American parent company and all work ended the second it happened. It was funny because they could have asked me to keep working, but I guess a paid vacation was nicer for me anyway.

Garden Leave (sometimes "Gardening Leave") is the technical term for this. You get paid, and they might insist on you not taking up any new job until the contract term ends, but they explicitly do not want you to do any work or come to the office or anything like that.

There's a parallel and equally wasteful but popular practice of insisting on taking on CxO employees of a purchased outfit for some prolonged period, perhaps as insurance, except that you've got no useful or interesting work for them to do. Unlike Garden Leave they're not fired - one of my friends was even told they could expect a substantial pay raise, but the job is now awful so their goal will be to wait only until as many options/ bonuses/ etc. as possible have irreversibly turned into hard money and then quit ASAP.

It's like OK, I could do something actually interesting next week or, I could sit in tedious meetings with idiots for 24 months, then pay off my mortgage, and retire immediately with $$$$$. Ugh.

If you know you'll be dead in a year, obviously the former is the right choice. But you probably won't be.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#89

Post by atemerev »

rglullis wrote: post #24
rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

Americans don't understand/trust/respect institutions. Because they don't trust institutions, if someone that is working for a company and does something bad, or is shown to be corrupt, it will affect the public perception of the company , not of the individual. Also, because Americans don't trust institutions, a lot of the internal processes and cultural values are upheld by the individuals, and how strongly this is…

Well, there are not many countries where people actually trust institutions (and, above all, the government). Perhaps Germany, Nordic countries, Netherlands, Japan, maybe a few more.

In Switzerland, we work with the government, and are generally OK with it, but proceed cautiously, as if it could explode any second. In Spain and France already, government is considered an inefficient nuisance. In many places in South America, the government is an adversary. In Russia, government is your arch-enemy, and you do everything possible to either hide from it, perhaps in another country, or actually damage it (unless you are evil and work for them).

So "trusting institutions" is a foreign, alien concept for most of the world.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#90

Post by supriyo-biswas »

sokoloff wrote: post #84
rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

At my second job, the company terminated an employee for poor performance and intended to let them stay on a short term to wrap things up and then start their severance. The first evening (or maybe the first Friday evening), that dev stayed late in the office and deleted the source trees from as many machines as he could get access to (this was 1996, so most machines didn't have logins) and wiped the hard drive on th…

Also see the case of Shannon You[1] where the person in question leaked the trade secrets for BPA-free liner production used in soft drink cans for being fired.

[1] https://www.justice.gov/usao-edtn/pr/phd-chemist-sentenced-1...

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