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Goodbye Auth0

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Re: Goodbye Auth0

#71

Post by herio »

diggan wrote: post #45
throwaway11073 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure - in most EU countries, especially to the east, they get some additional money (usually 1-6 months of wages + unused vacation days). That's about it. I don't know why people think it's not possible to fire people in the EU, but it is and it's a normal thing. It just costs some money.

> I don't know why people think it's not possible to fire people in the EU, but it is and it's a normal thing. It just costs some money. It varies across Europe as well. Some countries, like Sweden, have more protections than others (no matter if union member or not), as an example. You cannot fire someone unless they demonstrably neglect their work duties and the firing overall needs to be objectively justified. The…

For Sweden in addition to what's stated above, if the reason for being fired is downsizing of lack of work, the law for employment protection (LAS) also states that the people laid off have to be in the reverse order of their hiring. To the latest to be hired is the first to let go.

Exceptions can be made if justified, not dug into the details of how that works.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#72

Post by rakoo »

chippiewill wrote: post #47
maxehmookau wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Join. A. Union. https://utaw.tech/join/ also good. Think of it as having an employment lawyer on retainer for £8 a month. Well worth the money.

Unfortunately like student unions they don't keep the focus on their actual remit and delving into irrelevant politics: https://palestine.utaw.tech/advocate/

That all depends what a union is about to you. To me, it is totally on-topic.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#73

Post by edent »

Vinnl wrote: post #49
edent wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Each country has its own unique employment laws. So you would need a different Union in each country. In the UK, for example, it doesn't matter how small your employer is - you still have the right to have your Trade Union representative with you in certain meetings.

Right, having someone in meetings is nice, but I'm thinking more in terms of collective bargaining, being involved in layoffs (e.g. making sure that every effort has been made to move/retrain people) and all that.

Again, this will depend on the laws in your country. Speak to someone local to you.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#75

Post by iamacyborg »

rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

> What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work?

So I'm a Brit who briefly worked over in Alabama for a few months and yes, that was a genuine concern with some of the folks that were let go by the company. It was well known that quite a few staff members had firearms in their vehicles.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#76

Post by ponector »

throwaway11073 wrote: post #34
sksksk wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What country was this? If it was a European subsidiary, then would you have not have been subject to the employment protection of the country's laws?

Sure - in most EU countries, especially to the east, they get some additional money (usually 1-6 months of wages + unused vacation days). That's about it. I don't know why people think it's not possible to fire people in the EU, but it is and it's a normal thing. It just costs some money.

In many countries in Europe it is hard to fire individual worker who has permanent contract.

However, another story is when mass layoff is going on. For example in Poland group of 9+ workers can be fired without any real reason. Downsizing! With 3-6 month notice period, of course.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#77

Post by cmbothwell »

rglullis wrote: post #24
rollulus wrote: post #4

I don’t get it why the US company layoff culture is so different from what I’m familiar with, the European one. What are they afraid of that people need to be locked out? That one brings a gun to work? Here you get laid off, get a notice, are expected to continue working for a while (but depending on your work ethic you’ll take it easy), consume your remaining PTO, complain to your coworkers about what happened durin…

Americans don't understand/trust/respect institutions. Because they don't trust institutions, if someone that is working for a company and does something bad, or is shown to be corrupt, it will affect the public perception of the company , not of the individual. Also, because Americans don't trust institutions, a lot of the internal processes and cultural values are upheld by the individuals, and how strongly this is…

This is a very incisive and insightful take and really distills some large cultural differences between Americans and Europeans down to its essence.

Can I ask if you are American or European? How did you come about this insight?

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#78

Post by apelapan »

diggan wrote: post #45
throwaway11073 wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure - in most EU countries, especially to the east, they get some additional money (usually 1-6 months of wages + unused vacation days). That's about it. I don't know why people think it's not possible to fire people in the EU, but it is and it's a normal thing. It just costs some money.

> I don't know why people think it's not possible to fire people in the EU, but it is and it's a normal thing. It just costs some money. It varies across Europe as well. Some countries, like Sweden, have more protections than others (no matter if union member or not), as an example. You cannot fire someone unless they demonstrably neglect their work duties and the firing overall needs to be objectively justified. The…

Insubordination is definitely grounds for termination in Sweden. One of the easiest and fastest ways to get your self fired.

Your boss tells you to unpack a crate, you say no, boss tells you "f*ck off and never come back". Perfectly fine legally and you don't get any severance pay either.

There is some nuanced to this, as you have the right to refuse unreasonable requests and you are allowed to have a bad day if you have a longish good record etc etc.

For a knowledge worker it is more difficult to define what a reasonable order is and what constitutes insubordination, but the basic rules are the same.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#79

Post by marcosdumay »

sksksk wrote: post #32
tgv wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had that experience with a US mother company of a European subsidiary (of a subsidiary). CEO swings by, as he does once per year, and fires the whole dev team, including the local branch manager, because they'll take over in the US (they couldn't, and then bought a competitor instead; the original product is still running, 15 years later), and we were told to leave the building. I had a program building something f…

What country was this? If it was a European subsidiary, then would you have not have been subject to the employment protection of the country's laws?

No country will protect the right of the employee to finish his work before getting out of the company.

Re: Goodbye Auth0

#80

Post by activitypea »

> I was still caught a bit off guard. What about that high-priority project I was helping to lead? What about the training I was scheduled to deliver? What about the offsite next month?

This is the part that always confuses me. I understand why they treat employees as disposable, but it's like they don't care about continuation of business either.

I feel like everytime I've quit a job, I cared more about my succession plan than my employer just because I have professional standards I set for myself. It makes no sense to me.

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