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I don't want anything your AI generates

coryd.dev

311–320 of 345 posts

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#311

I'm not a fan of this hyper aggressive line-in-the-sand argumentation about AI that pushes it all precariously close to culture war shenanigans. If you don't like a new technology that is perfectly cool and your right to an opinion. Please don't position it so that if I want to use AI I have to defend myself from accusations of exploiting labor and the environment. That is NOT at all clear, settled, or even correct m…

You should have to defend yourself if you are going to use this unreliable, untested, irresponsible technology.

Everyone who wants to do things that completely ignore the reasonable concerns of their fellow citizens should feel some heat, at least.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#312

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that without loud declaration like this money men will just soldier on with implementing shittier future. It's always do something first and then ask for forgiveness. But at the point you ask for it it's too late and too many eggs were broken. And somehow you're richer at the end of it all and thus, protected from any consequences. While everyone else is, forgive my French, fucked. Has Facebook been a ne…

Ai/ml will change out world. It already does. It's a Paradigma shift and probably the most impactful after the internet. From human to machine interface to medicine, research, content creation etc. No one cares about some dude posting some negative rant like that.

I care. So, you should recheck the facts that you presumably got from your Bing query.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#313

"AI output is fundamentally derivative" By that definition, so is all human output. Musicians spend years studying and practicing other people's music before writing their own, painters spend years trying to replicate techniques before mastering their own, programmers spend years reading other people's bugs before authoring their own. All expression of skill is ultimately derivative. Sometimes slightly, sometimes ver…

People act as if we are drowning in War and Peace level masterpieces that AI is going to displace. There is absolutely nothing going on culturally. "I am not into all this derivative AI crap. I like the creativity of humans. Do you want to go see Spiderman part 37 or Superman part 22 this weekend?" We are already a culture that has been displaced by completely uncreative, derivative art and useless gadget making for…

> There is absolutely nothing going on culturally.

Old man yells at cloud.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#314

I'm not a fan of this hyper aggressive line-in-the-sand argumentation about AI that pushes it all precariously close to culture war shenanigans. If you don't like a new technology that is perfectly cool and your right to an opinion. Please don't position it so that if I want to use AI I have to defend myself from accusations of exploiting labor and the environment. That is NOT at all clear, settled, or even correct m…

^^ THIS ^^ The middle road I've taken is that I use various consumer AI tools much the way I used the Macintosh or the Atari ST with MIDI when they showed up while I was in music school, as tools that may be used as augmentative technology to produce broader and deeper artistic output with different effort. There's something mystical and magical about relinquishing complete control by taking a declarative approach to…

Please don't do “^^ this ^^”, comments are reordered here.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#315
post #279

I'm not a fan of this hyper aggressive line-in-the-sand argumentation about AI that pushes it all precariously close to culture war shenanigans. If you don't like a new technology that is perfectly cool and your right to an opinion. Please don't position it so that if I want to use AI I have to defend myself from accusations of exploiting labor and the environment. That is NOT at all clear, settled, or even correct m…

> I'm not a fan of this hyper aggressive line-in-the-sand argumentation about fossil fuels that pushes it all precariously close to culture war shenanigans. If you don't like a new technology that is perfectly cool and your right to an opinion. Please don't position it so that if I want to use fossil fuels I have to defend myself from accusations of polluting the air and the environment.

I'm not sure what you think you did here, but juxtaposing climate change with copyright squabbles really brings out how much of a first-world-problem such squabbles really are.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#316
post #315
post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not a fan of this hyper aggressive line-in-the-sand argumentation about fossil fuels that pushes it all precariously close to culture war shenanigans. If you don't like a new technology that is perfectly cool and your right to an opinion. Please don't position it so that if I want to use fossil fuels I have to defend myself from accusations of polluting the air and the environment.

I'm not sure what you think you did here, but juxtaposing climate change with copyright squabbles really brings out how much of a first-world-problem such squabbles really are.

Are you going to pretend that the emissions caused by the enormous usage of energy by ML training and inference are not a thing?

Also, I wouldn’t morally have a problem with AI companies violating copyright if they weren’t hypocritical about it and open-sourced their software.

Anyways, the main message of the analogy is that you can’t just wave away the moral responsibility for the consequences of your actions. It wasn’t supposed to be a comparison of severity.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#317
post #275
post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sometimes need this. It’s nice to get an average of all mediocre content summed up as a bullet list sometimes. Sometimes I want the average tourist guide, the average recipe or the average answer. Now I get it instantly without sifting through ad-infested shallow content. ChatGPT made it so much easier to be curious about new things. It’s a good trailhead for curiosity.

Point of note: this is all well and good until these tools become inevitably ad-infested. I'm starting to think we need to add "advertising" to the list (Death, Taxes, etc).

It's only a matter of time

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#318

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Show me a human being that, in an afternoon, can study the art of Rembrandt and from that experience, paint plausibly Rembrandt style paintings in a few minutes each, and I'll swear by AI for the rest of my life. So it's okay to learn, but only if you do it very slowly? I surely don't need to point you to the existence of forgers - you know a human can study the art of Rembrandt and paint plausibly Rembrandt style…

> So it's okay to learn, but only if you do it very slowly? No, it's a fundamentally different process with different results. An artist learns from previous artists to express things they themselves want to express. An AI digests art to become a viable(ish) tool for people who want to express themselves, as long as that expression resides somewhere in the weighted averages of the art the model has digested. Two fund…

> An artist learns from previous artists to express things they themselves want to express.

Ahh yes, that well known human impulse to produce stock artwork for newspapers and to illustrate corporate brochures. I can't imagine what the world would be like if we let cold, soulless processes design our corporate brochures!

I suppose this argument works for Art(TM), but why is it relevant to the soulless, mass produced art? Should it be okay to discard all the artists who merely fill in interstitial frames of an animation? Is "human expression" actually relevant to that?

> And again, you've sidestepped the scale

Pick one: either this is about speed or it isn't. Would you actually be fine with AI art if it was just slower? If not, then stop bringing up distractions like this. If this really is just about scale, it's a very different conversation.

> Because cars costed a fortune when new and were toys for the wealthy, before Henry Ford came along some three decades later to fix that.

Sorry, when did Rembrandt paintings stop being toys for the wealthy?

> And then, the former farriers had time to retrain for new work.

So, again, it's just that progress is moving too fast? If we just slow things down a bit and give the artists time to flee, that makes it okay?

> Hyperbolic statements with zero substance?

We haven't talked before, so I didn't know whether you were someone who was okay with automation putting people out of work. That's hardly zero substance. I'll assume this means you're fine with it, since you don't think it's even worth discussing.

> Consent

Okay, so, bottom line: you're saying that if they spend a few billion to license all that art, and proceed to completely replace human artists with a vastly superior product, you're OK with that outcome? (I'm not saying this is inconsistent, just trying to understand your stance - previously you were talking about the importance of artists expressing themselves and the speed at which AI can do things - what's actually important, here?)

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#319
post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> disproportionately damaging to the environment compared to the alternatives This is a new one to me. Do you have any source for that? Once a model is trained, it seems pretty obvious that it takes Dall-E vastly less to create an image than a trained artist. I have trouble believing the training costs are really so large as to change the equation back to favoring humans.

Dall-E is usually not an alternative to a trained artist, but an alternative to downloading a stock image from the internet, which takes way less energy.

AI generated images have already won numerous awards. They can easily make assets good enough for an indie video game. Even stock images have to come from somewhere

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This back of the napkin estimate for GPT-4 emissions costs is too high by orders of magnitude. Your estimate is that training it emitted about as much as CO2 as 5.38 billion average humans living their lives for a year did. With a world population of 8 billion, it would mean that GPT-4 training was equivalent to 0.67 years of total anthropogenic CO2 emissions. Since GPT-4 CO2 emissions all come from manufacturing har…

That's a good point, that's what I get for doing a linear extrapolation. This looks like a better estimation, which doesn't look good for my argument: https://towardsdatascience.com/the-carbon-footprint-of-gpt-4... I still think my point about imagining that using ML models decreases emissions versus a human doing the same task still stands though — humans don't produce that much more or less emissions depending on w…

Huge kudos for admitting this changes your reasoning - I don't see people willing to admit that often, especially on the internet.
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