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I don't want anything your AI generates

coryd.dev

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Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#281

Post by xigoi »

handoflixue wrote: post #218
000ooo000 wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The author claims there is expoititive harm to labor [...]. That is not at all obvious or provably true yet. Not at all obvious? These models are trained on vast amounts of content, much of it copyrighted, and basically none of it licensed.

Human artists have been training on the same content for decades and no one seemed to complain. You can argue that machines should be held to a different set of legal and ethical standards, but it's certainly not obvious. Most factories are designed based on vast amounts of prior manual labor, so it's not like "automating a manual process based on analyzing existing methods" is new, either. Why is it okay to automate…

Human artists are not robotically ingesting terabytes of content.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#282

Post by xigoi »

handoflixue wrote: post #217
logicprog wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that machine learning like large language models and image generating systems exploit labor might be up for debate, but the fact that they are disproportionately damaging to the environment compared to the alternatives is certainly true in the same way that it's true for Bitcoin mining. And there's more than just those two aspects to consider, it's also very much worth considering how the widespread use of s…

> disproportionately damaging to the environment compared to the alternatives This is a new one to me. Do you have any source for that? Once a model is trained, it seems pretty obvious that it takes Dall-E vastly less to create an image than a trained artist. I have trouble believing the training costs are really so large as to change the equation back to favoring humans.

Dall-E is usually not an alternative to a trained artist, but an alternative to downloading a stock image from the internet, which takes way less energy.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#283

Post by xigoi »

pseudo0 wrote: post #152
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Please don't position it so that if I want to use AI I have to defend myself from accusations of exploiting labor and the environment. You, personally, likely are not (apart from electricity use but that's iffy.) But the technology you want to use could not exist, and cannot continue to be improved, without those two things. That's not unclear in the slightest, that's just fact. > I'm open to that conversation and…

Your "steelman" is embarrassingly bad. Why play devil's advocate if you're going to do such a bad job of it? Here's an alternative: - As a form of fair use, models learn styles of art or writing the same way humans do - by seeing lots of examples. It is possible to create outputs that are very similar to existing works, just as a human painter could copy a famous painting. The issue there lies in the output, not the…

> As a form of fair use, models learn styles of art or writing the same way humans do - by seeing lots of examples.

“a lot” is doing very heavy lifting here. The amount of examples a human artist needs to learn something is negligible in comparison to the humongous amounts of data sucked up by AI training.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#284

Post by skynet305 »

melkor73 wrote: post #255
skynet305 wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's evolution and our responsibility to make it good. Doesn't matter though if we like it or not because it's happening. The only thing preventing this is a total economy collapse so crazy that our society doesn't continue chip production.

We weren't able to make the internet good, what makes you think we'll do any better with AI?

I can do my bank stuff online, pay and manage bills, can call my parents with video, send pictures etc.

Internet is a huge success.

Internet is connection not private websites.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#285

Post by novemp »

novemp wrote: post #235
themonsu wrote: post #219

What about AI-generate educational content? We use AI-generated voice calls to teach languages, e.g. immigrants get to practice speaking a new language without paying for a human tutor.

Sounds great until the "AI" tutor poisons their learning with hallucinations.

downvoted for this lmao, I love that we're just pretending hallucinations aren't a thing

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#286

Post by _gabe_ »

rain_iwakura wrote: post #196
_gabe_ wrote: post #194

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> terrible shows being greenlit, homogeneity of camerawork, casting, identity-politics pandering that nobody asked for, oversaturation of the market with streaming services that is almost as bad as cable etc. … Binge-tv model is also not a good thing None of this is unique to Netflix. Terrible shows have been greenlit since the dawn of television. Shows are incredibly homogenous because they’re largely produced by a…

I'm not sure if you're joking about binge-ing but you have to be delusional to think that someone taping their favorite show on their own or waiting for it until it ends is nearly the same as dropping all episodes at the same time on principle for every show and only offering that as an option for a long time. building your whole UI around it and encouraging this behavior? The point about others jumping on the bandwa…

I’m not joking.

> but you have to be delusional to think that someone taping their favorite show on their own or waiting for it until it ends is nearly the same as dropping all episodes at the same time on principle for every show and only offering that as an option for a long time

What? The only reason cable didn’t release seasons all at once was to maximize profits. They get to run more ads, to force a user to stay subscribed for longer to finish their favorite show, charge studios extra for prime time spots, and more. These big productions are usually done with the whole season by the time it would release on cable. It’s not like they would stagger the release out of the goodness of their hearts to help people avoid bingeing.

What does it matter if you watch 8 hours of the same show or 8 hours of different sitcoms? I never mentioned taping a show and bingeing it all at once. I mentioned the fact that some people will watch large amounts of television regardless of what’s actually on the screen.

> I know you're trying to be smart here, and failing, but are books built to be binged?

And I guess you’re trying to be smart and failing? What’s with the backhanded comment. Why not engage with the argument being made instead of making comments like this?

That’s beside the point. The argument I was making is people for some reason find bingeing a show for 8 hours morally reprehensible. But reading a book is fine. The same thought process has been applied to gaming for long sessions. My argument is why are these different mediums deserving of different moral judgments? What makes reading, doing math, playing video games, or watching tv for long periods of time more or less reprehensible? These all serve one purpose: activities meant to entertain (maybe not math). Why does the medium the entertainment is delivered through make it any better or worse?

It isn’t. I think the thing people have a problem with, rightly so, is the lack of balance. It’s unhealthy to obsessively engage in one activity for long periods of time. But that’s a different argument altogether.

All in all, you didn’t really refute anything I said or try to show how any of these things are unique to Netflix. I agree with you by the way, but you’re framing your argument poorly in my opinion.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#287

Post by 1vuio0pswjnm7 »

1vuio0pswjnm7 wrote: post #208

Feels like "crypto" where if someone says "I am not interested", "I do not like it", or something to that effect then commenters suddenly appear suggesting that this is somehow unacceptable. Look at the top comment. Like crypto, it seems some folks have bet on "AI", and are spooked by any hint of skepticism.

"hyper-aggressive", "loud"

It's a blog post, there's no audio or video.

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#288

Post by StreetChief »

techno_tsar wrote: post #202
sfn42 wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man i really hate how people absolve themselves of responsibility like this. "It's not my fault I spent all weekend watching Netflix, it's their UI!" No, it isn't. I love when they release full seasons at a time. I can watch them at whatever pace I please. If some degenerate can't control themselves that's their problem. "But muh children" parent them. "But irresponsible parents" Netflix is probably the best case sce…

I don’t interpret this discussion as about absolving oneself of responsibility. To be fair, what people spend their weekends doing is none of my business. But it is true that Netflix makes UI decisions that encourage binging. They are not evil for doing so, because honestly, there isn’t anything wrong with binging anyway, but it’s indicative of the logic that is going to be used when it comes to producing their own s…

What if they are spending their weekends building devices to kill you? Does it now become your business?

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#289

Post by 6510 »

skynet305 wrote: post #284
melkor73 wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We weren't able to make the internet good, what makes you think we'll do any better with AI?

I can do my bank stuff online, pay and manage bills, can call my parents with video, send pictures etc. Internet is a huge success. Internet is connection not private websites.

I appreciate the optimism but to me this should have been you essay about the good of the internet. I'm convinced it would be worth reading. If you wrote it, I wont see it because that is how certain people like it.

My lengthy rant in response would likely be about the almost impossible puzzle of logistics, the access to the vast ocean of knowledge that humanity has accumulated and the organization of this complete mess that is civilization.

We have plenty of stuff, we just cant get it to the right place at the right time. We know plenty of stuff but we cant get it to the right person at the right price. We really want to make this democracy thing work but despite our effort we keep getting sausages filled with you don't want to know.

My definition of a huge success is different. Maybe I'm wrong for thinking we could do more with the tool. If I'm wrong I don't want to hear it :-)

Re: I don't want anything your AI generates

#290

Post by StreetChief »

stolenmerch wrote: post #52

I'm not a fan of this hyper aggressive line-in-the-sand argumentation about AI that pushes it all precariously close to culture war shenanigans. If you don't like a new technology that is perfectly cool and your right to an opinion. Please don't position it so that if I want to use AI I have to defend myself from accusations of exploiting labor and the environment. That is NOT at all clear, settled, or even correct m…

Your name is "stolenmerch"... I wonder if that colors your perspective at all.
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