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Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

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Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#191

Post by rightbyte »

Hikikomori wrote: post #99
tmikaeld wrote: post #79

What if Tesla just pulled out of the country? Who's worst off? Sweden: - Loss of jobs, I don't know how many. (But the workers would prob. be quite bitter, they earned more with Tesla shops than standard shops) - May be bad for Swedish investments, since a union deal would now be mandatory. - Less electric cars, less good for the environment. - € ~100M/year in tax lost from sales. Tesla: - Loosing € ~350M/year (10K S…

You don't think Tesla owners would seek reimbursement if they cannot service their cars anymore? The government would likely get involved to avoid Tesla car e-waste, either to force car returns and repayment or to allow 3rd party mechanics to work on their cars.

Most contracts got exemptions when breaches, delays, non-service etc. are due to strikes.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#192

Post by bjornsing »

RandomLensman wrote: post #61
cypress66 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla isn't demanding the postal union to ship them the plates, they are demanding to be allowed to pick up the plates by themselves.

If that is allowed under the law now, why don't they? If is not permitted under current law, not sure how easy it is to change law with a suit.

As I understand it: The law is that the government agency must make new license plates “available” to Tesla. They tried to argue in court that it was sufficient for them to put license plates in the mail. But the court sided with Tesla, at least in the interim. So it’s definitely not open-and-shut case for the unions.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#193

Post by flutas »

jacquesm wrote: post #181
flutas wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> edit: apparently it's worse than just stock: I'll wait for the original source. An anonymous comment on reddit with no source, does not a valid claim make. All I can find is (translated) claims that Tesla said they may remove the stock option program going forward and layoffs. [0] Which is a far cry from "holidays, bonuses, stock and insurance" or "stealing $7000" > There have also been reports that employees have…

Yes, agreed. But that's a lot of smoke already, those reps would likely not say that if it wasn't something they could back up.

> But that's a lot of smoke already, those reps would likely not say that if it wasn't something they could back up.

Agreed, but the reps would also clearly make the other claims as well, if they were valid claims that they could back up. The fact they didn't makes me think it's someone being overly dramatic with no actual knowledge. Or to put it another way, I don't think it's "a lot of smoke", I think it's a campfire that's being claimed as a forest fire.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#194

Post by iepathos »

kmlx wrote: post #24
jesperlang wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla is trying any means necessary since they know that Swedish labour laws are strong: if they do not have a union agreement, workers are allowed to strike (indefinitely). This vacuum we are now in is probably very costly for Tesla so I at this point I think it is an ideological/personal battle..

> This vacuum we are now in is probably very costly for Tesla i would assume the nordic markets are tiny compared to the RoW. does anyone here have any data on revenue from those markets for tesla?

Sure do, https://www.statista.com/outlook/mmo/passenger-cars/tesla/sw... sweden is $629m annually for tesla out of Tesla's $26b total annual revenue.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#195

Post by ceejayoz »

belltaco wrote: post #131
ceejayoz wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The factory says they can't do this. > According to the Transport Agency, current regulations mean it is only able to distribute number plates using Postnord.

The district court just ordered the Transport Agency to hand over the plates to Tesla within a week, Postnord be damned. https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/domstol-teslas-registreri...

As a temporary injunction, yes.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#196

Post by xhubin »

TheChaplain wrote: post #83
r0ckarong wrote: post #18

Looks like the counter to "fuck your rules" has always been: "ok so no more commerce with you".

Rules? Collective agreements are entirely voluntary, by law. What is happening is that the union is using connected companies to force Tesla to sign a collective agreement. Employees are not prohibited from joining the union themselves, they are protected by law and Tesla can not stop them nor fire them for it. From what I've read, the employees are quite happy as it is, and a collective agreement would actually make…

>and a collective agreement would actually make thing worse as it puts some restrictions on the relation between employer/employee.

The collective agreement puts 0 restrictions, it's essentially just a form of safeguard to protect employees from abuse. They can still have higher salaries, bonuses, longer vacations etc.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#197

Post by scottyah »

susano wrote: post #174

Not overly knowledgeable on Swedish law, but the idea that a public sector union can decide to block public services (in this case postal delivery of license plates) for a single company as a sympathy strike seems pretty nuts to me. Pretty sure Sweden would lose in European court at least (of course it would probably take a long time to percolate there).

It screams corruption to me, this definitely sounds like one political group has infiltrated the governmental services and has gotten enough power to begin publicly target people/groups that they oppose.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#198

Post by pw378 »

kmlx wrote: post #97
piva00 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the postal workers refuse to deliver anything to tesla (which seems a bit crazy considering there are laws about using the postal services). It's not crazy when you understand the Swedish model: labour laws are minimal, setting just a very basic framework which is then taken to employers + employees negotiations to set the other terms of employment for an industry, in that it's a pretty free labour market. The…

> It's not crazy when you understand the Swedish model the only thing i’m questioning is the idea that the postal company is allowed to not deliver mail. it just looks very wrong to me.

Striking is one thing, but targeting an individual company is another. They are not striking, they are selectively denying a critical service to force submission.

It is not hard to imagine scenarios where this is weaponized with horrifying outcomes.

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#199

Post by bjornsing »

Hikikomori wrote: post #120
Pungsnigel wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most employees don't seem to be in support of the unions at this point though? It's a bit hard to tell as there are no official numbers, but from what I've seen it seems like ~90% or so of employees at Tesla remain at work. And there is a high demand for their services, so they could easily go to other companies for work if conditions are bad.

Not all workers have joined the union and wouldn't get paid by the union to strike. But unions use sympathy strikes against companies that might retaliate against their workers if they strike, Tesla has already made threats. So going by how many of the workers at Tesla are striking or not is not a good measurement.

The union is offering free memberships and 130% of normal pay. Tesla employees still don’t want to strike [1]. This is why the unions are using these extreme tactics.

1. https://teknikensvarld.expressen.se/nyheter/bilbranschen/tes...

Re: Tesla sues Swedish state agency over number plate blockage

#200

Post by cinntaile »

david38 wrote: post #187
aaomidi wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is actually democracy in action. Worker unions are a lot better at making the voices of workers heard and actuated on.

Not sure you know what democracy is. Tesla is required by law to use the post to get plates. This invalidates the whole premise.

What is undemocratic about a law in a democratic country? They can pick up their plates themselves for now, the lawsuit will decide what the law says.
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