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Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

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Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#251

Post by vel0city »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #79
AustinDev wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are most definitely doing this to combat cheaters. I tried out Cronus + KBM on my friend's Xbox S and it was comical. I had aim assist, no recoil and a keyboard and mouse. I was running 100:3 K:D on COD:MW2. If you don't think cheating is a big part of the reason you've never played console games competitively.

That's the problem though: pampering to competitive gamers ruins the experience for the vast majority of people, who just want to, you know, enjoy a game . Unfortunately, competitive gamers are the only ones that matter - they're the cash cows of this part of the industry, which now focuses on creating as many such players as they can, and milking them for all they're worth. Consider how cheating was handled back bef…

The vast majority of players are likely using the stock controllers or controllers they picked up at a normal store stocking pretty much only OEM or approved 3rd party controllers.

The vast majority of players will never know this is a thing.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#252

Post by fennecfoxy »

tennis_80 wrote: post #221
fra wrote: post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guarantee you that the total profit generated from selling XBOX controllers is immaterial to Microsoft. Anyone with an ounce of understanding of hardware business models will tell you that this has nothing to do with selling more controllers.

It looks pretty clear cut to me - and just because MS is massive doesn't mean that someone somewhere hasn't seen this as an opportunity to improve their personal / department KPIs. I'm not familiar with hardware business models though, so what do you think it is about instead? Reducing hardware cheating?

Potentially improving user experience but another big one is opening up consoles to the huge and still growing esports market.

See super smash bros tournaments/other esports tournaments. Controllers are restricted to certain types.

But tbf there's only so much that can be done with a controller, it's usually software based hacks that are the main problem.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#253

Post by crazygringo »

serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

I disagree completely -- there's no significant money to be made here. Microsoft wouldn't even bother if this were a financial play, it's so small. Not that many people use non-Xbox controllers to begin with, and whatever licensing fees Microsoft will charge manufacturers may very well be offset by the costs of running the licensing program itself.

This seems very clearly to be anti-cheat. Advantages are not "trivial to detect" "after only a few minutes" -- there's tons of issues with false positives and false negatives. Any software detection, cheaters can learn how to go right up to the line but not cross it, and that still gives them big advantages, while genuinely really good players get unfairly banned.

This is a single-purpose gaming console, not a general-computing device. One of the big benefits of console gaming is precisely protecting gamers against cheats, which makes it different from PC gaming. Microsoft wants a fair gaming experience for everyone, which makes it more fun for everyone who wants to play fair. If your idea of fun in gaming is cheating, then use a PC instead.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#254

Post by permo-w »

busterarm wrote: post #216
permo-w wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

in the hundreds of hours I've played of multiplayer console FPSs, which are what these controllers are marketed towards[1], I think I saw a player with a modded controller once. yes they got an advantage from it, but FPSs are mostly about how fast you can aim not how fast you can shoot, so it wasn't exactly game-breaking also in Call of Duty at least, often semi-auto fire rates are capped at a human level anyway even…

macro controllers and AI controller inputs are a thing and are actually rampant in certain games. Just look on youtube for some of the Street Fighter 6 cheat videos that have popped up in the last few weeks. Also if you play games like Apex, Valorant, etc, there are macro controllers that will not only perform movement tricks for you but will do things like correct aim for automatic fire drift/spread or even (on PC)…

I bow to your superior knowledge

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#255

Post by kevincox »

0x500x79 wrote: post #7

I think that this is a response to the rising usage of the Cronus and/or other controller modification tools that give players advantages (cheats). For example one of these "Mods" for Cronus state that they are: a dynamic, fully-automated Anti-Recoil system that transforms your in-game character into a laser-guided juggernaut we've affectionately dubbed as [BEAM] Battling cheaters in video games is a never-ending cha…

If they were trying to stop cheaters they could just ban "unauthorized" controllers for online play. This would give a much more understandable message "Unauthorized controllers can't be used for online play to ensure that no player gains an unfair advantage."

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#256

Post by fennecfoxy »

squigz wrote: post #94
baby wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So should they just give up on cheating devices?

When it comes at the expense of legitimate user freedom, and is arguably useless? Probably.

I mean Xbox is already a controlled platform, you can't run unsigned code, etc.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#257

Post by AlexandrB »

Loughla wrote: post #238
busterarm wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

macro controllers and AI controller inputs are a thing and are actually rampant in certain games. Just look on youtube for some of the Street Fighter 6 cheat videos that have popped up in the last few weeks. Also if you play games like Apex, Valorant, etc, there are macro controllers that will not only perform movement tricks for you but will do things like correct aim for automatic fire drift/spread or even (on PC)…

I just don't get it. I genuinely don't get it. If you're cheating, you're not winning; the software or hardware is. What is the point? What do people get from this?

Same applies to "pay to win" games, yet they make a ton of money.

Cheating is definitely its own kind of fun though - I remember cheating in single player games using something like a Game Genie back in the day. It's fun because you feel like you're "getting one over" on the game. In multiplayer it's a plague, but some people (mostly kids/teens, I hope) seem to be very amused by the angry reactions they get.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#258

Post by AlexandrB »

belugacat wrote: post #162
lawn wrote: post #68

This is one reason the Steam Deck model of being an open console system is the future. Some dinosaurs wants to preserve the old locked-down console experience, where you have exclusive games, controllers and digital stores. But its just worse for the customer in every way.

The day Valve falls, for whatever reason (greed, incompetence, some impossible to predict market shift/tech innovation... Gabe doesn't have decades and decades left as CEO after all) - the open world of PC gaming as we know it will probably fall, to be devoured by the Microsoft/Epic/Ubisoft/etc of the world. Compared to most other tech/gaming companies, it's shocking how non predatory and customer friendly they are.…

I think Valve gets way too much credit. They haven't abused their market position as much as they could have but they did normalize always-online DRM schemes. CS2 skin trading is also a hive of illegal/underage gambling and scams.

If you want to valorize a digital games retailers, I would suggest GOG is a better candidate.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#259

Post by k_roy »

fennecfoxy wrote: post #243

Tbf on one hand, 3rd party controllers are often absolute crap for all platforms, cheap shitty stuff. On the other hand, this is just blocking out competitors/money grab as other comments have mentioned already. But I mean...why are people so upset they're doing it? Plenty of other companies already do this, especially Apple (which many of you seem to adore).

> Tbf on one hand, 3rd party controllers are often absolute crap for all platforms, cheap shitty stuff.

I don't think we are talking about the MadCatz controllers you gave your younger sibling.

This is 2023.

There are many third party controllers that are superior in every way to stock ones. I've got a few 8BitDo controllers that I use to play basically everything possible, since bluetooth is so ubiquitous now.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#260

Post by tiahura »

Am4TIfIsER0ppos wrote: post #141
endisneigh wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Buy a gaming pc if you want freedom

Microsoft is hard at work trying to control the software you put on it through code signing in the form of Secure Boot and signatures on user software. We haven't quite got Authorized peripherals excepting HDCP in the bluray-to-display path. You have kernel level anti cheat mechanisms there at the expense of private servers.

Microsoft is hard at work trying to control the software you put on it

Someone should probably tell the Visual Studio teams.

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