Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience" • Hacker News Board

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#161

Post by kibwen » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 12:08 PM UTC

orf wrote: post #36

kibwen wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have power over the software running on the hardware, it ain't your hardware. Force the consoles to be open and give power back to the users.

It’s always fun to see that viewpoint run face-first into real life, as it inevitably and immediately devolves into a cesspool of cheating that either drives everyone off the platform or loops back around to being forced to run anti-cheat software you don’t have power over. These vapid comments about freedom And abstract notions of ownership always strike me as naively and comically libertarian

"Won't someone please think of the children^W cheaters?" This argument is preposterous. If you want to solve multiplayer game cheating, there's no solution other than to make your game fully server-based and stream a video feed to the client. Meanwhile, these draconian anti-multiplayer-cheating methods obliterate single-player-game freedoms by removing all potential for modding, which is the only good thing about the medium of gaming these days.

These vapid comments about convenience over freedom and short-sighted notions of corporate control over our devices always strike me as naively and comically authoritarian.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#162

Post by belugacat » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 12:09 PM UTC

lawn wrote: post #68

This is one reason the Steam Deck model of being an open console system is the future. Some dinosaurs wants to preserve the old locked-down console experience, where you have exclusive games, controllers and digital stores. But its just worse for the customer in every way.

The day Valve falls, for whatever reason (greed, incompetence, some impossible to predict market shift/tech innovation... Gabe doesn't have decades and decades left as CEO after all) - the open world of PC gaming as we know it will probably fall, to be devoured by the Microsoft/Epic/Ubisoft/etc of the world.

Compared to most other tech/gaming companies, it's shocking how non predatory and customer friendly they are.

I've been able to maintain my digital library for almost 2 decades now, I've played those games on dozens of different hardware configuration without having to pay a single cent for it - compared to my other digital libraries, many of which (Wii, 3DS, PSP, etc) are completely lost to time.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#163

Post by narinxas » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 12:11 PM UTC

solardev wrote: post #140

serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

OK, maybe I'm biased here as a PC gamer who frequently uses a controller... but why not just allow both? Some games like Gears of War on Xbox already do this. Others, like Fortnite, offer crossplay and just show a symbol over each player's head. Do mouse and keyboard players have an advantage? Sure. So do players with bigger TVs or Series X graphics or less worn controllers or the Elite controller. Big deal? The PC e…

> Why purposefully handicap your player base instead of letting them use whatever they want?

for the same reasons giant corps do anything: Profit!

they think, and likely will, sell more "official" (i.e. premium price) controllers

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#164

Post by ToucanLoucan » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 12:13 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #155

solardev wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference? An Xbox is essentially one already.

You don’t see the difference between an Xbox and a gaming pc running windows?

Sure there's a difference, an XBox sucks.

Besides that? Not particularly. The input devices are worse, the underlying hardware and software is worse, the fact it only supports a measly 60hz at 4K^1 blows. I used to love XBoxes and have many great memories of my original and 360, but ever since the XBox One it's just been a bloated, slow PC with a bad interface front for Windows.

I own one because occasionally I like to play Halo 5. That's literally it.

[1]: What Microsoft calls 4K which is like 2560x1440 upscaled slightly on the vast majority of games.*

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#165

Post by mathieuh » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 12:13 PM UTC

solardev wrote: post #140

serf wrote: post #74

This is a money grab with the polish of a pro-gamer cheat-cleanup. Why do I say that? Microsoft can fix most of the 'cheats' that a software controller can implement in software. Auto-fire is trivial to detect, as is a KBM setup where it doesn't belong. Out of the ordinary joystick characteristics/speed/hysteresis/range would make it obvious to them which controllers are aftermarket if they cared to disallow them aft…

OK, maybe I'm biased here as a PC gamer who frequently uses a controller... but why not just allow both? Some games like Gears of War on Xbox already do this. Others, like Fortnite, offer crossplay and just show a symbol over each player's head. Do mouse and keyboard players have an advantage? Sure. So do players with bigger TVs or Series X graphics or less worn controllers or the Elite controller. Big deal? The PC e…

Problem is a lot of games give controllers aim-assist, and using one of these devices means the game still sees your input device as a controller so you get that aim-assist but you also get the benefits of using a mouse.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#166

Post by solardev » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 12:16 PM UTC

endisneigh wrote: post #155

solardev wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the difference? An Xbox is essentially one already.

You don’t see the difference between an Xbox and a gaming pc running windows?

Not really? I bought an Xbox when I couldn't afford a gaming PC, but beyond that, they are very similar.

Especially these days. Microsoft even sells a Xbox ultimate pass that works on PC and lets you play or stream many cross platform games. You can also play them on geforce now.

Xbox to me is just a cheap gaming PC with a kiosk OS.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#167

Post by solardev » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 12:19 PM UTC

mathieuh wrote: post #165

solardev wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK, maybe I'm biased here as a PC gamer who frequently uses a controller... but why not just allow both? Some games like Gears of War on Xbox already do this. Others, like Fortnite, offer crossplay and just show a symbol over each player's head. Do mouse and keyboard players have an advantage? Sure. So do players with bigger TVs or Series X graphics or less worn controllers or the Elite controller. Big deal? The PC e…

Problem is a lot of games give controllers aim-assist, and using one of these devices means the game still sees your input device as a controller so you get that aim-assist but you also get the benefits of using a mouse.

That seems fine? Some games do offer it for mouse too and I always turn them off. It's not really a limiting factor for most mouse users. Just let be an option that any one can toggle on or off. Maybe have two different leagues.

I'm not some hardcore shooter pro gamer either, just some dude with a $20 mouse and mouse pad full of cat hair. Aiming is not an issue at all and auto aim is just a hindrance.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#168

Post by Toutouxc » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 12:21 PM UTC

lawn wrote: post #68

This is one reason the Steam Deck model of being an open console system is the future. Some dinosaurs wants to preserve the old locked-down console experience, where you have exclusive games, controllers and digital stores. But its just worse for the customer in every way.

I don't know, I very much enjoy the dinosaur PlayStation 5 experience, significantly more than my gaming PC (that I only use for flight-simming now). I mean, if Steam unveiled a new Steam Deck-style box with all the power, support, polish and sales of Xbox at least, I'd probably agree with you, but at this point I can't see how open console systems are "the future". Steam Deck sells because it's a great portable gaming system that can run AAA titles surprisingly well (unlike the poor underpowered Switch), and only then because it's more open than the (not direct) competition.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#169

Post by ryukafalz » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 12:21 PM UTC

gretch wrote: post #5

flipdot wrote: post #3

Does this mean the end of custom accessibility controllers?

Sounds like it will be the end of 3P accessibility controllers yes. Xbox has invested extensively in their 1P solution though: https://www.xbox.com/en-US/accessories/controllers/xbox-adap... It's modular and programmable

It would be a shame if someone with a physical disability needed to find a different accessible controller for each platform they play on because each one only supports first-party controllers though.

I don't have a disability serious enough to need adaptive controllers like this, but I do have RSI, and when I find peripherals that I can use with minimal pain I stick to them. I have to imagine many with more serious disabilities would feel similarly.

Re: Xbox will block third-party controllers to "preserve the console experience"

#170

Post by dncornholio » Tue, Oct 31, 2023, 12:23 PM UTC

lawn wrote: post #68

This is one reason the Steam Deck model of being an open console system is the future. Some dinosaurs wants to preserve the old locked-down console experience, where you have exclusive games, controllers and digital stores. But its just worse for the customer in every way.

A gaming device controller by Microsoft is nothing different from a gaming device controller by Valve.