The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete • Hacker News Board

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#271

Post by DoreenMichele » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:24 AM UTC

zogrodea wrote: post #260

DoreenMichele wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

“Should we be unable to find a way to honest cooperation and honest pacts with the Arabs, then we have learned absolutely nothing during our 2,000 years of suffering.” Einstein in his letter to Zionist leader Chaim Weizmann, Nov. 25, 1929, AEA (Albert Einstein Archives) 33-411. He's not alone in this sentiment. Other prominent Jews like Hannah Arendt were anti-Zionist too.

That has no bearing on what I said. Israel exists due to this goal to establish a Jewish homeland. This is where we are.

Einstein's vision was not followed and his fame as a Nobel prize winner doesn't automatically mean he had the best answer.

If only everyone were kind-hearted and well-meaning and acted in good faith and etc, then maybe we wouldn't need religion or government. That, however, is not the world we live in and being too "nice" can mean you just enable the bad behavior of people less nice than you.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#272

Post by leereeves » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:26 AM UTC

invalidname wrote: post #267

leereeves wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What safe zone? Israel is bombing south Gaza too. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/why-is-israel-atta...

The attacks there are mild and usually follow the prior procedure of warning shot before the attack giving people time to hide. In the south it only targets actionable intelligence e.g. the Hamas "navy seal" unit was in the south next to a port. That was a very localized specific attack.

Are you saying the attacks in the north are not based on actionable intelligence?

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#273

Post by petertodd » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:27 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #252

petertodd wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I already linked you this survey that showed that Hamas doesn't have widespread support You're survey shows frustration with ineffective governance. There are lots of governments out there that people are frustrated with, yet still support. > Oh, okay. You are fine with just repeatedly bombing a captive population. It takes all kinds I guess. I'm not fine with it. But that doesn't change the fact that from Israeli'…

So, let's for a moment assume that Israel is successful in eradicating all of Hamas. Unlikely, but for the sake of the argument let's assume that it works. Then, two days later they kick a bunch of Palestinians out of their homes and bulldoze it, hand the land to a bunch of settlers. What's to stop a new Hamas to rise again?

> Then, two days later they kick a bunch of Palestinians out of their homes and bulldoze it, hand the land to a bunch of settlers.

There aren't settlers in Gaza. There are in West Bank, and in the West Bank those settlers do in fact illegally and immorally force West Bank Palestinians from their land. On occasion settlers also murder them. But in Gaza the Israeli government forced all the Jews in Gaza to leave when Israel deoccupied Gaza in 2005.

> What's to stop a new Hamas to rise again?

Like it or not, Israel can easily get another 10 years or so of relative safely even if Hamas rises again simply by blockading Gaza after a successful military operation to exterminate Hamas. Which is a better outcome for Israel than the status quo, where Hamas will likely conduct another massacre of Israeli's in the near future. Not to mention, continue to launch rockets into Israel.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#274

Post by enterprise_cog » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:27 AM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #243

enterprise_cog wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep missing the fact that Israel is actually, right at this moment, following through with their words. It is reality. Hamas doing a genocide is conjecture.

One of them started this war and now want to have a time out? It's not a game of cops and robbers.

Time out? People don’t want to see innocent civilians intentionally slaughtered by a US backed country.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#275

Post by invalidname » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:27 AM UTC

jacquesm wrote: post #157

orionsbelt wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has given repeated warnings for the north of Gaza to evacuate south for the past two weeks while Gaza has had internet. In addition, they have dropped leaflets all over the are stating the same thing.

The only real problem is that there isn't anything to evacuate to and whatever they leave behind they'll lose forever.

How is this Israels fault at this point?

There are a lot of historic things that are its fault, but at this point the Hamas left it no choice whatsoever. It won't accept anything less than the destruction of Israel. It still holds kidnapped children and elderly civilians. It's still firing missiles into Israel as of today...

The Palestinian people got squeezed in the middle because of that and it's terrible. What more can Israel do if the Hamas is willing to sacrifice its own civilians and literally places its headquarters under a hospital (which Israel didn't bomb).

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#276

Post by FireBeyond » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:27 AM UTC

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #218

FireBeyond wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyway, if Gazan citizens learn the lessons of their mistakes, they still have a future. Mistakes? To be clear, before I continue further: Hamas is a terrorist organization. Hamas also has a lot of support within Palestine. Now then, scenario 1) how, realistically, do you propose that the regular non-Hamas supporting Palestinian works to eradicate Hamas? Hamas have arms. (Let's not also forget how hard right Israel…

> how do you prevent legions of new Hamas supporters being 'born' every day? Fully open the border with Egypt and provide documents usable internationally. Then many educated Gazans would happily leave for better opportunities elsewhere. It would make a dent large enough in Gazans’ demographics that Hamas would not longer be able to extract the same level of material support from the civilian population and camouflag…

How much leverage do Palestinians have in making that happen? Not a whole lot. That's the main issue.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#277

Post by arp242 » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:27 AM UTC

djaro wrote: post #189

arp242 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I understand it, historically it's been fairly accurate and reliable. Does this guarantee they're accurate today? No. Do I blindly trust anything that's being said? No. But merely "it's Hamas, therefore the figures are false" also doesn't really cut it. See e.g. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/26/can-we-trust-c...

A week ago, when Hamas dropped a rocket on THEIR OWN hospital, the "Health Ministry" said Israel killed 500 people. Despite it not being Israel, and it not killing 500 people. They are just straight up lying

No one claims that's what happened; there are claims that a misfire from Palestinian Islamic Jihad caused the explosion. This seems entirely plausible, perhaps even likely, but as of yet it's not 100% clear. Absolutely no one suggest that it was somehow an intentional attack on their own people.

Could just have been some yahoos firing a rocket from the bushes and getting it wrong, and that Hamas has just as much information as the rest of us do. That is, basically this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ESOhN-SaH-s

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#278

Post by invalidname » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:28 AM UTC

leereeves wrote: post #272

invalidname wrote: post #267

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The attacks there are mild and usually follow the prior procedure of warning shot before the attack giving people time to hide. In the south it only targets actionable intelligence e.g. the Hamas "navy seal" unit was in the south next to a port. That was a very localized specific attack.

Are you saying the attacks in the north are not based on actionable intelligence?

They are more widespread. In the south they have very specific and narrow targets.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#279

Post by jacknews » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:29 AM UTC

brucethemoose2 wrote: post #202

History suggests expunging determined, fortified, modern militants embedded in a civilian population never goes well. The expunger loses or gets a pyrrhic victory, even with a huge economic advantage. Honestly, however dire the need, I don't see what Israel is thinking. If Israel, the US, Europe, China and Russia all held hands and invaded the Gaza strip together, they still probably couldn't route out Hamas.

Exactly, and in fact they will just create more radicals, and push the existing ones to even more barbaric extremes.

I'm starting to feel radical myself, and I have no connection at all to events, other than being able to spot a bully obviously about to carry out systematic barbarism in retribution.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#280

Post by romafirst3 » Sat, Oct 28, 2023, 2:29 AM UTC

Kreutzer wrote: post #266

FireBeyond wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, so Germany declared war on Poland, and during their occupation of Poland during that war, they conducted genocidal activities. I don't see how your comment refutes anything.

Genocidal activities with the goal of removing the ethnic people entirely from a region. I didn’t wish to “refute anything”, not sure what you are commenting on.

You are not wrong but the point I was making was that framing this as a war is incorrect.

Wars have armies on both sides.

Wars aren’t fought between an army and a bunch of trapped civilians who can’t escape between people with the latest high tech military equipment and another group who have some small arms, ancient equipment and rocks.