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The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

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Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#261

Post by ipaddr »

jacquesm wrote: post #219
ipaddr wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Hamas is as big as it is because there are a lot of people in Gaza who think that Hamas is their best chance of changing the situation. If it is as bad as it seems to be to me as an outsider then you have to understand that for someone with absolutely no future and nothing to lose living in what has been termed the worlds largest prison that a large fraction will end up being recruited. This is a reflection of the de…

"there are a lot of people in Gaza who think that Hamas is their best chance of changing the situation"

They lost that bet. Why double down with a losing hand?

If that happened to you I would hope your responses wouldn't be to kill, torture and rape anyone who happens to be in Germany? I can't see that helping your cause

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#262

Post by jacquesm »

ipaddr wrote: post #255
jacquesm wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I saw paraphrased language like this it was the Jews on the receiving end. Do us all a favor and stop with this kind of language, this is exactly what keeps the wheel of violence turning. For every terrorist you kill you get three new ones. For every house that gets demolished and a family displaced you get another bunch, for every child that gets shot there are bereaved people left behind some of whom…

War ends when one side is destroyed or both sides agree to peace. When both sides see the devil and one side is stronger than the other side the other side many not exist for much longer.

That only works if 'both sides' are organized nation states. Besides the obvious geopolitical complications involved here 'might makes right' isn't going to work in the case of what is at its root a religious dispute over land. That takes any kind of rationality off the table and will just result in interminable attacks and counterattacks or in genocide and especially Israel will not want to be seen in that position. It would negate the whole reason for its existence.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#263

Post by leereeves »

invalidname wrote: post #259
solarpunk wrote: post #61

how does Israel give evacuation warnings if Palestinian telcos are offline?

The warnings were given for a while now. Unfortunately, the Hamas has set up roadblocks to prevent civilians from fleeing to the safe zone. They are using civilians (their own people and children) as human shields.

What safe zone? Israel is bombing south Gaza too.

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/why-is-israel-atta...

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#264

Post by catlover76 »

mcpackieh wrote: post #175
DoreenMichele wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the wikipedia piece linked to by the person to whom you are replying: Roof knocking occurred during some strikes in the October 2023 Gaza−Israel conflict. And it links to a piece describing the conflict that began October 7th.

I've been watching live webcam footage of Gaza since things started to get hot. I've watched huge bombs level buildings in Gaza out of the blue with no preceding small explosions as warning. Whatever the IDF may say, they aren't "roof knocking".

Dude, why would you watch something like that?

I'm not accusing you of being perverse or anything, but what is your motivation and your reasoning?

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#265

Post by invalidname »

tachyons wrote: post #164
orionsbelt wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Israel has given repeated warnings for the north of Gaza to evacuate south for the past two weeks while Gaza has had internet. In addition, they have dropped leaflets all over the are stating the same thing.

Except it was just a an eyewash, people tried to move got killed on the way, people also got murdered in the so called safe areas by Israel.

They were blocked by Hamas roadblocks and prevented from moving. Israel tracks mobile signals to follow population movement and tries to minimize civilian casualties. Even with the inflated death toll from the Hamas this care is evident.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#266

Post by Kreutzer »

FireBeyond wrote: post #151
Kreutzer wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here’s an historical corollary: “ The ethnic cleansing of Zamojszczyzna by Nazi Germany (German: Aktion Zamosc,[4] also: Operation Himmlerstadt)[5] during World War II was carried out as part of a greater plan of forcible removal of the entire Polish populations from targeted regions of occupied Poland in preparation for the state-sponsored settlement of the ethnic German Volksdeutsche.” https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wi…

Right, so Germany declared war on Poland, and during their occupation of Poland during that war, they conducted genocidal activities. I don't see how your comment refutes anything.

Genocidal activities with the goal of removing the ethnic people entirely from a region. I didn’t wish to “refute anything”, not sure what you are commenting on.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#267

Post by invalidname »

leereeves wrote: post #263
invalidname wrote: post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The warnings were given for a while now. Unfortunately, the Hamas has set up roadblocks to prevent civilians from fleeing to the safe zone. They are using civilians (their own people and children) as human shields.

What safe zone? Israel is bombing south Gaza too. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/why-is-israel-atta...

The attacks there are mild and usually follow the prior procedure of warning shot before the attack giving people time to hide. In the south it only targets actionable intelligence e.g. the Hamas "navy seal" unit was in the south next to a port. That was a very localized specific attack.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#268

Post by jacquesm »

ipaddr wrote: post #261
jacquesm wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hamas is as big as it is because there are a lot of people in Gaza who think that Hamas is their best chance of changing the situation. If it is as bad as it seems to be to me as an outsider then you have to understand that for someone with absolutely no future and nothing to lose living in what has been termed the worlds largest prison that a large fraction will end up being recruited. This is a reflection of the de…

"there are a lot of people in Gaza who think that Hamas is their best chance of changing the situation" They lost that bet. Why double down with a losing hand? If that happened to you I would hope your responses wouldn't be to kill, torture and rape anyone who happens to be in Germany? I can't see that helping your cause

Then you fundamentally misunderstand human nature, and eventually that will result in de-humanizing the other side and that in turn leads to genocide. Do you really believe that displacing people and leaving them nothing to live is going to result in people just packing up and leaving because that's the reasonable thing to do?

What should those people do to help their cause? Appeal to the UN? Sorry, veto'd.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#269

Post by bhouston »

YZF wrote: post #209
bhouston wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

paulvnickerson wrote: > This number comes from Hamas, so I would take it with a grain of salt. Hamas intentionally uses its civilians as shields for their military equipment. Both of these statements are spreading FUD around death numbers that most people in the know believe are accurate: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/despite-bidens-dou... . It isn't a great look for you.

How can there be "most people in the know" when the Gaza strip is under the tight grip of Hamas? Israel has always published all the details of all causalities in all the conflicts, civilian and military. Hamas never did until this new list and has never broken the numbers by combatant vs. civilian. Who and how exactly verifies those numbers? Your link even says: "International groups, even some operating in Gaza, an…

YZF wrote:

> How can there be "most people in the know" when the Gaza strip is under the tight grip of Hamas?

If you read the article is says that in past conflicts Gaza Health Ministry numbers were within 10% of Israel reported numbers. In the past there haven't been issues with the numbers being wrong.

> Why are we even playing this numbers game in the first place?

I am unsure. It is quite likely that there is a massive amount of death in Gaza, more after this evening. I think those spreading FUD about the numbers are trying to minimize what is going on, sort of a way of deflecting guilt about it.

Some people say that the numbers are not real, others say that Hamas brought it upon the civilians, or others say that all civilians are responsible since they didn't over throw Hamas, etc. All I know is that it will probably get worse.

Re: The destruction of Gaza's internet is complete

#270

Post by YZF »

BrianHenryIE wrote: post #197
YZF wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Is there a list published of all the causalities and their status? Yes. By the United Nations Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs. https://www.ochaopt.org/data/casualties And I'm not entertaining the rest of your questions.

That is not a list. Israel publishes all the names and all the details of every single casualty.
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