EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals • Hacker News Board

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#911

Post by ragestorm » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 4:14 PM UTC

theshrike79 wrote: post #113

organsnyder wrote: post #70

I was at [IAPP Global Privacy Summit]( https://iapp.org/conference/global-privacy-summit/ ) 2022, where Tim Cook gave a keynote. He started with highlighting all of the ways Apple protects its users privacy (many of which are great, and the reason I use Apple products!), but then he pivoted to make the case that Apple being forced to allow rival app stores would compromise their ability to protect users' privacy. Thi…

It's like taking a rabid badger as a roommate. You can in theory keep it cornered in its own room (sandbox), but there's no way to be 100% sure it'll stay there. You can be absolutely sure that it will never stop trying to get out. App Store apps can be trusted to stick to a sandbox because they are vetted to a standard before being allowed there. There's no reason for Epic-F-Droid-Store have their applications adher…

I would equate it to a rabid badger that is behind a door behind another door with both having signs saying ‘beware of rabid badger’. If you want to play with the badger, go for it or just leave the doors shut and you never have to worry about it.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#912

Post by globular-toast » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 4:17 PM UTC

a-user-you-like wrote: post #885

globular-toast wrote: post #763

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is forcing anybody. Apple is free to pull out of the phone market entirely.

Hah, I laughed at that one. Good one. Of course the needless regulation and coercion is forcing Apple to act.

Needless regulation? If corporations are people, they are psychopaths. Literally. Of course we don't let psychopaths do what they want. As for the individuals working for Apple, we don't do slave labour. Nobody is being forced to do anything.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#913

Post by cozzyd » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

henry2023 wrote: post #564

cozzyd wrote: post #460

Earlier quoted context omitted.

many of the best apps I have are from f-droid...

Which ones? Maybe there's one or two I can check

Ones I happen to use a lot are K-9 Mail, ConnectBot, GPSTest and Tuner

But for most random small utility apps, F-Droid will usually be better since you don't get ads or crapware...

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#914

Post by 6510 » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 4:35 PM UTC

Tagbert wrote: post #85

6510 wrote: post #33

From no way in hell it seems I'm gradually getting an iphone. I cant be bothered to buy my own prison. (If you don't agree I have a cage to sell you.)

A cage with windows and doors is not much of a cage.

After the revolution you no longer need those who made the transition happen.

Like there is no more use for communist revolutionaries after victory.

Independent repair men are useful while you conquer the tractor market.

Software shops can iterate over designs while you charge them rent, then you take the popular features and make them part of your platform using superior api's specially intended for it. You cant not update the platform or not notice the popular 3rd party tools.

Is this capitalism? Is this how competition should work? You have to fight the undefeated champion 10 000 times your size, but to keep things honest we tie both your arms behind your back?

There is no future for programmers here. There is no need to progress beyond owning everything. If there are 2 or 3 owners doesn't really matter.

One will have to wait forever for the thing that should logically come after x84 it doesn't make sense to manufacture electric cars.

Governments have a monopoly on rent. It's all locked down, there is no competing with them, not even for Apple.

There are plenty of other planets if you don't like the EU. Infinite doors and windows.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#915

Post by hn_throwaway_99 » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 4:46 PM UTC

geocar wrote: post #708

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downvoted this because you're ignoring iMessage. The fact that Apple purposefully not only gives Android users a shitty experience when communicating with iOS users, but also ensures that the presence of an Android user can break the experience for everyone else in a group chat (e.g. degraded videos now for everyone) in iMessage is a blatant attempt to abuse their monopoly power (in the US at least where iMessage d…

> Apple doesn't even need to make an Android version of iMessage, they just need to support RCS instead of SMS/MMS: https://www.android.com/get-the-message/ Or Google could have just licensed iMessage. RCS is not a consumer benefit: RCS gives strange powers to the carrier that your phone connects to (as opposed to the company you contract with; i.e. your mobile carrier), powers over your camera, microphone, radio, po…

> has confused you into thinking Apple did something wrong, or is continuing to do something wrong by not adopting Google's RCS (and paying Google's license fees for RCS, integrating with every carrier, and so on) instead of Google paying Apple for iMessage (and paying Apple's license fees for iMessage). This isn't your fault, you're just proof that Google's advertising is working and that Google is really good at advertising and marketing.

Sorry to be blunt, and I realize this may not be in-tune with HN guidelines, but seriously, fuck off, because this style of passive aggressive "I'm sorry little simpleton, it's not your fault for being so simple" comment deserves nothing better than a fuck off. Especially since there are parts of your message that make it clear that you don't know what you're talking about, e.g. Google doesn't receive any license fees for RCS.

I know exactly what the issues, and history, are. I don't deny that Google is pushing this for selfish reasons. At the end of the day Apple is intent on keeping their iMessage lock in because it essentially shames other people (especially teenagers and young people) into getting an iPhone.

I don't think neither Apple's nor Google's motivations are "more pure", but one is in favor of interoperability regardless of device (which was supposed to be the entire purpose of the Internet), while another favors device exclusivity.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#916

Post by rahkiin » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 5:08 PM UTC

anticensor wrote: post #804

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The opposite is true in the US. I'd guess that 95%+ of iOS users in the US text primarily on iMessage (excluding those who are primarily texting international contacts). I'm fact, that's probably the biggest reason I think Apple has been able to abuse their iMessage stance for so long: the EU has been far stronger at regulating compatibility and interoperability (we can thank the EU for the fact that we can finally g…

Nothing prevents Apple from offering a non interoperable format in addition to the interoperable one. For example, offer both MIMI and Apple iMessage protocols in the iMessage app.

It does! With automatic fallback. It is a protocol called SMS

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#917

Post by FireBeyond » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 5:21 PM UTC

whizzter wrote: post #543

Keyframe wrote: post #493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're advocating against v8 monopoly, where no one is forcing it down on anyone, by holding a candle to the actual enforced monopoly of WebKit? Where's consumer choice in this and how about having an actual choice dictate what is used and what isn't? Let me quote from a familiar case: "Antitrust laws ensure one company doesn't control the market, deplete consumer choice, and inflate prices. Microsoft was accused of…

Consumers chooses iPhones (and indirectly Safari), yes the bundling has some bad effects. But in the bigger picture it's currently really the only thing keeping developers somewhat true to making cross-browser sites working for Firefox users, since the Firefox devs has a larger chance of keeping up with what works on ChromeEdge+Safari rather than keeping up with the ChromeEdge pace alone, do you really trust Google (…

In the early days of Safari after OS X became popular, there was a second wave of "Works best on IE" from OS X web developers who generally only tested on Safari.

Let's not pretend that Safari's raison d'être is to protect consumers from Google's browser.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#918

Post by e12e » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 5:41 PM UTC

runeks wrote: post #883

e12e wrote: post #786

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, why not force Google to open up Chrome, to increase interoperability? I want to be able to export saved passwords from Chrome You can? https://support.google.com/chrome/answer/95606?hl=en&co=GENI...

You didn’t quote me properly. The whole quote is: > I want to be able to export saved passwords from Chrome and import them into the macOS keychain, and vice versa.

I suppose perhaps you want chrome and keychain to support a single, common, import-export format, rather than having to convert between them?

In the context of your whole comment and TFA it sounded more like: why make Apple support import-export when Google does not.

Rather than make everyone support import-export, like Google already does?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#919

Post by zuhsetaqi » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 5:41 PM UTC

InsomniacL wrote: post #799

donatj wrote: post #753

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With no regard for specified speed / power capabilities, USB-C is in and of itself a vastly physically inferior connection. It becomes easily impacted with pocket lint, and the tolerances are so small it can't be cleaned with normal tools. Not even just the phone, but the cable as well. I'm an Android user and I have spent years dreaming that Apple would just open Lightning to the community. I am kind of lightly thri…

Transfer speeds by year 2001 USB: 480Mb/s 2012 Lightening 480Mb/s 2023 USB 80,000 Mb/s 2023 Lightening 480 Mb/s But just on physical characteristics, I've had to deal with multiple iPhone with a broken pins whereas broken pins for USB is just a replacement cable.

Lightning does also support USB 3 (5Gbps) speed. It was used on iPads before they switched to USB-C. Do your research before posting false information.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#920

Post by carlosjobim » Wed, Sep 27, 2023, 5:47 PM UTC

allenrb wrote: post #383

Good lord, this is the whinge that never ends, isn’t it? If you want an Android phone, dozens if not hundreds of companies will sell you one. You can quite literally choose the level of openness you desire. Personally I prefer the Apple ecosystem where things just tend to work well. It would be difficult to care less about running something other than Safari on an iPhone. Nobody is forcing anyone to buy Apple’s produ…

It is a psychological quirk of the human mind when people have choices. You see it all the time here on HN and in the real world. People agonizing about what different "ecosystems" they should use or which things they should purchase.

The truth is that you can have both an iPhone and an Android phone and use both of them as you please. You can have a computer for OS X and one to dual-boot Linux and Windows. You can use a bunch of different text editors, depending on which suits you for the task at hand. You don't have to chose between Gmail and Fastmail, you can use them both. You can have several different web browsers installed on your machine and use them as you please.

People in these forums agonize over tech choices like it is something that they will have to stick with exclusively for the rest of their lives. I really don't get it. You don't have to chose between having a car or a bicycle. You can have both, and are free to walk as well when you feel like.

I like Apple's products and services, but if they don't offer something that is important to me and some competitors offer this, I can simply use the products of a competitor. Why would I trust the most corrupted bureaucrats this planet has ever seen to start interfering?