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EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

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Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#561
post #451

Maybe not surprising but if you read the comments on the website there seems to be only Apple fanboys commenting who are butt-hurt about it. You can not make this up, consumers who root for a monopoly. This reminds me of gamers who hate the Epic Games Store with passion even though they give the actual devs of the games a bigger cut. Competition is always good for the consumers. And I get the security part when it co…

You know nothing about markets or real life market engagement if you blindly believe "competition is always good for consumers". There are costs to competition, inherently. Competition is only of benefit to consumers if they capture the more of the new surplus utility generated by competition than they capture the new costs. There will be marketing costs, there will be the costs of the data policies of these new mode…

Curious about this answer. Do you have any example in which prices of goods and services actually went up after more competition entered an industry? In case you do, are you sure you aren't cherry picking?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#562
People that scoff at the security argument as well as the argument against the proliferation of shitty third party stores clearly haven’t read Nokia’s annual threat intelligence reports of the past couple years.

Pretty much every year they show Android to have a sizable market share in malware and it’s almost always accompanied with the context that people got these from third party stores filled with Trojans posing as legitimate apps.

Yeah sure, you could try to cut this off at the pass with system level mitigations but it’s not like Google hasn’t made headway in improving this on Android.

People are also quick to forget that system level mitigations are but one layer of a Swiss cheese model with App Review, while not infallible, being a very important part of that model.

ETA: Below some information from said reports that I copy pasted from a different comment of mine

Where 2020[0] “only” saw Android come in at 26.64% with iOS coming in at 1.72%, in 2021[1] Android accounted for a whopping 50.31% of the infections while iOS didn’t even register on the charts.

Let me repeat that again: over half of all infections in 2021 were on Android devices.

Were these super sophisticated attacks? Let’s see, because Nokia, understandably so, dedicated significant sections of their reports to Android.

In 2020 they stated (emphasis mine):

> In the smartphone sector, the main venue for distributing malware is represented by Trojanized applications. The user is tricked by phishing, advertising or other social engineering into downloading and installing the application. The security of official app stores, such as Google Play Store, has increased continuously. However, the fact that Android applications can be downloaded from just about anywhere still represents a huge problem, as users are free to download apps from third-party app stores, where many of the applications, while functional, are Trojanized. iPhones applications, on the other hand, are for the most part limited to one source, the Apple Store.

In 2021 they stated (emphasis again mine):

> Among smartphones, Android devices remain the most targeted by malware due to the open environment and availability of third-party app stores.

> […]

> The number of Trojans targeting banking information through Android mobile devices has skyrocketed, putting millions of users around the world at financial risk.

> […]

> Banking Trojans can arrive on smartphones in a variety of ways, often disguised as common and useful apps. When run, they request a variety of permissions needed to perform their desired behavior, then often remove their icon from the application pane, effectively disappearing from the device. In many cases, the apps never provide the promised functionality that enticed the phone's owner to install them and are forgotten quickly after disappearing. However, they remain installed and continue to run as background tasks, using a variety of tricks to collect user information. These may include capturing keystrokes, superimposing their own transparent overlays onto bank login screens, taking screenshots and even accessing Google Authenticator codes.

So it looks like in most cases users are being tricked to install malware and grant permissions.

This all also explains why the whole “muh sandbox” argument carries little weight. Not only is the sandbox but a single layer of a bigger Swiss cheese model, the sandbox isn’t gonna help your mom if she’s tricked into granting permissions.

On top of that you can bet your ass that iOS users will be prime targets, certainly more desirable targets than random Android and Windows users, because of potential ill gotten gains.

0: https://vpnoverview.com/wp-content/uploads/nokia_threat_inte...

1: https://onestore.nokia.com/asset/i/210088

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What apps are you using? Not a single one on my iPhone has any ads.

App Store is the biggest offender, personally. At the top of every query is an ad.

We have a very different definition of "Ad" then. I just opened my App Store and only saw one ad - and that was for a game I already have installed.

Do you consider the new content suggestions on ATV+, Netflix, Prime video etc. as "Ads" too?

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#565
post #535

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont agree with it at all, but you are right, people buy apple because need to trust somebody and they trust apple to keep making the right product for them. I don't even consider them superior but certainly trustworthy. Whatever changes apple implements would have to be easily revertable so people can go back to their golden prison.

It’s not a prison to keep me in. It’s a wall to keep bad things out.

And so is my apartment door. But I can open the door whenever I want and its not up to my landlord to decide which guests I invite.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#566
post #318
post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

> Fucking good. Seconded. Perpetually baffled by the so-called hackers in all of these threads arguing vociferously against user freedom.

[flagged]

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#567
post #318
post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

> Fucking good. Seconded. Perpetually baffled by the so-called hackers in all of these threads arguing vociferously against user freedom.

And I am perpetually baffled by people crying "Steve Jobs phone open when???!!1" in every such thread, so let me explain in clear terms that even most obtuse people could understand: I spent enough time removing crap like MacKeeper from my GFs/mothers MacBooks and really _not_ looking forward to having to do the same on their iPhones. No, they don't need "freedom" to be tricked into installing crapware on their devices same way as I don't need "freedom" to cut my face with an open razor. _Real_ cool haxxors like you (as opossed to "so-called hackers") can buy an Android device and install whatever software they want like I did.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#568
post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it comes down to what we expect the second order effects to be. Those who argue that forcing Apple to open up their ecosystem is a good thing appear to believe that increased user freedom will lead to more option for all and increase freedom further. Those of us who argue that being forced to open their ecosystem is a bad thing believe (speaking personally) that any user freedom added would quickly be lost an…

> I think it comes down to what we expect the second order effects to be. Apple is the wealthiest single organization in the history of the world, and they just make consumer electronics. This isn't some deep ecological problem. Very little good has come out of letting these big corporations go completely unchecked.

Just some consumer electronics? Phones and computers run the world now.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#569
post #318
post #166

Fucking good. It's bullshit that you can only run Safari on iOS or that the App Store is the only store you can use. Yes, I understand the security implications of a third-party browser having deeper integrations into the OS and potential battery life concerns. I also don't care. I want to run Firefox on my phone. The actual thing. With containers and extensions. Let Safari compete on the merits. I want the choice of…

> Fucking good. Seconded. Perpetually baffled by the so-called hackers in all of these threads arguing vociferously against user freedom.

Yeah, I don't understand it at all. It's shocking to me to see people on Hacker News defend the trillion dollar corporation's right to literally own their computers and their entire digital lives. We shouldn't even have to justify these viewpoints here.

Re: EU tells Apple to open everything up to its rivals

#570
post #51
post #35

Good! I'm looking forward to having to uninstall a crypto miner on my mom's phone because it told her the only way to play a slots app is to allow third-party apps.

Why don't you set up her iphone as a managed device so you can stop her from doing that?

Apple is managing it already. The status quo is good.
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