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The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

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Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#191

Post by Clamchop »

haswell wrote: post #130
mihaic wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That post does make it sounds very cool to do all these things though, so I'd say it's good to have a balancing post that says that risking body parts for a thrill is uncool.

> risking body parts for a thrill is uncool - Free divers - Rock climbers - Motorcycle riders - Mountain bikers - Sky divers - Skateboarders - Glider pilots - Base jumpers There is a vast array of body-part-risking hobbies with a spectrum of associated risk. While I’m not one to encourage obvious stupidity, bodily risk is at the center of so many things that humans value, that I think there’s a framing problem by say…

I would tend to agree. It's borderline offensive to me that some snap back with "how stupid" because their threshold for acceptable risk is different and pushing up against it doesn't thrill them.

But I nevertheless have hangups with the original scenario as described. It seems constructed to dial up social pressure and exploit it to provoke careless behavior and avoid accountability. Countercultural in a sense (arguably straddling antisocial) but that's not the same as good, and it's nothing like those sports that usually have a culture (hmm) of planning, safety, and consent.

Well, maybe not motorcycling and skateboarding so much as the others, but you get the gist.

And yet, there's still something appealing about the idea... can't quite put my finger on it, but perhaps I've already blown it off.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#192

Post by haswell »

mihaic wrote: post #168
haswell wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> risking body parts for a thrill is uncool - Free divers - Rock climbers - Motorcycle riders - Mountain bikers - Sky divers - Skateboarders - Glider pilots - Base jumpers There is a vast array of body-part-risking hobbies with a spectrum of associated risk. While I’m not one to encourage obvious stupidity, bodily risk is at the center of so many things that humans value, that I think there’s a framing problem by say…

Like some dude said, that's just, like, my opinion. I'm not forcing it on anyone, but I do want a fair chance of trying to convince others of it. I understand that mastery and control can come from dangerous activities, but I can still voice my disapproval of these activities, since you can get the same feeling through safer ways.

I’m not arguing against caution, and I tend to be a cautious person in my 30s, but this can be taken too far in both directions.

My point was more that framing this as a thing to judge (implicit in uncool) isn’t ideal and probably less likely to change minds than an exploration of the reasons people enjoy things, with clear examination of the risk/reward, which isn’t going to be an absolute number to apply equally to all personalities and life situations.

Many rock climbers are tortured people and will tell you that doing what they do is the reason they’re alive. Having had brushes with dark frames of mind personally, I can understand the willingness to embrace whatever it is that will provide consistent/reliable relief.

The binary position (disapproval) misses the broader context. And perhaps there is a less risky alternative to be found, but it seems more likely to be found if explored from that broader perspective.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#193

Post by stcroixx »

jhartwig wrote: post #140
hammock wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Networks of cottage industry. During Covid lockdowns I joined a powerlifting gym that was a startup in an old dry cleaners, had to “try out” to get in (make sure I wasn’t a narc), was the only gym in a city of 5+ million that was open and they had papered over the windows so prying eyes couldn’t observe the no-masks inside. I had the fewest tats in the place, you only wear black, there will never be any TVs and the h…

(Make sure I wasn’t a narc) What does this mean in the context? Were they afraid of getting shut down during covid or something? I’m assuming that is what you meant.

Could be roids. When I used to powerlift that stuff was all too common. When I was kid lifting with the grownups they sold GHB next to the protein bars.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#194

Post by aaron695 »

burnished wrote: post #36
linuxftw wrote: post #3

[flagged]

I hesitate to vouch for this comment because of the tone, but I feel like theres genuine confusion here worth talking about. So to answer directly - I thought it was very clear. I wouldn't describe it as word vomit at all albeit informal in tone. The idea that what used to be counter culture can not be so anymore because it feeds the beast is abstract and wild but also reasonable. Where did it lose you? Not asking as…

[dead]

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#195

Post by mindslight »

add-sub-mul-div wrote: post #160
tomjen3 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US right lost ground for as long as I can remember. Remember, when Clinton was president he couldn't even talk about gay marriage, now it has been legal for a decade. Sure the republicans have won elections, but would you really call Trumph conservative? This ended when they won Row vs Wade, but short of that, they lost almost every battle they engaged in. The US is less religious than ever, porn and violent vide…

The left has won socially and the right won economically. The rich have won a greater share of the money, while social progress for homosexuality etc. has also been won. The difference is that the poor and middle class of the right don't get to enjoy the benefits of their side's "win".

I found some insight in your last sentence, but on examination it feels myopically specious like so much political discourse. The invocation of "left" and "right" are always put forth as some overriding distinction, but the actual dividing line for the issues in your comment is whether policies were palatable to big business, regardless of whether out of immediate financial self interest or to divide the plebs over social issues.

That dynamic is kind of inevitable when you buy into someone else's battle for your own win condition. Falling for the "temporarily embarrassed millionaires" dynamic was never going to result in a good outcome. But the same lack of benefits of "winning" apply to the "left" as well - the majority is still heteronormative, and so doesn't directly benefit from societal acceptance of homosexuality. So in reality the grassroots of both tribes are mostly looking at symbolic victories that don't convey direct benefits, and directing focusing on a single one is just further stirring the pot.

(And yes there are definitely arguments to be made that appeal to loftier goals such as freedom etc, but those are orthogonal to discussing who actually benefited from each winning trend).

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#196

Post by stubybubs »

unpopularopp wrote: post #24

In 2023 counterculture is right wing but that's a hard to swallow pill for a lot

The right wing has absolutely dominated culture for the last 30 years. They have however presented very successfully as counterculture by naysaying literally every attempt at progress in any direction. Every conversation we're having about social, political, or economic issues is framed by right wing grievances. Did the gay marriage battle have to be such a big deal? It was fixed by the stroke of a pen in several states before being challenged in courts federally, then we all had to hear about it on the news for years and years. Climate change. Healthcare. It goes on forever.

When they finally overturned Roe v Wade they went too far. Their results from the 2022 midterms, which should have been an absolute bloodbath with GOP dominance, was one of their worst showings ever. President's party usually gets punished, rampant inflation, another war, rising interest rates, housing crisis, etc. The GOP barely managed to take the house and did slightly worse in the senate. It's because of abortion. They exposed themselves as The Man, for all time.

I think maybe what true counterculture needs is risk. Something has to be at risk, either by the participants being excluded naturally from a greater system, or choosing to exclude themselves and risking their privilege. Being queer is still countercultural, because there is still significant risk to them every day. Rainbow flags at Starbucks does not mean they are "safe." They can get married, but they still find themselves excluded from a lot of traditions later in life. Young women now literally risk death from accidental pregnancy in many states. Being a vocal proponent of unionization can lose you your job.

There's really nothing at stake for the right wing. Their mouthpieces fall out of fashion and go on to lucrative gigs at consulting firms, or writing books filled with grievances, or really just sitting at home because they were already obscenely wealthy. Tucker Carlson doesn't need to work ever again. Haven't heard from Ann Coulter in a while, but she's still worth tens of millions.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#197

Post by jehb »

OfSanguineFire wrote: post #57
ravenstine wrote: post #19

The real counterculture right now is non-participation . In a world where virtually everything is either designed to completely waste your time or fail and not be repairable, it's a highly radical act to stop consuming like the 95%, preferring to spend time with other humans in reality doing something that isn't technological. In spite of the popular world pushing the message that you will be fulfilled living in virt…

I work seasonally and spend the other half of the year trying to disconnect and focus on real-life, outdoor hobbies. Even if I leave my phone turned off, the majority of the people around me, young and old alike, are on their phones. They feel a need to document what they are doing on social media. Even in countercultures that draw on the 1960s hippies for examples, people might frown on photos going on social media,…

> I work seasonally and spend the other half of the year trying to disconnect and focus on real-life, outdoor hobbies.

A bit off-topic, but I'm curious if you have any advice for finding seasonal jobs? It feels a bit ironic to be working in tech, making twice what I actually need to live off of, but with no real option to just work half as much.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#198

Post by oceanplexian »

dfxm12 wrote: post #144
Llamasponge wrote: post #12

In a time where tolerance and respect for minorities is slowly becoming mainstream, you could argue that the far-right has become counterculture. The far-right is VERY prevalent on both Instagram, Twitter and other social media.

In a time where tolerance and respect for minorities is slowly becoming mainstream You could have said this at least for the last 70 years. It doesn't change the systemic issues that enable prejudice against minorities. This means prejudice is still more mainstream than tolerance. Recently, there was a SCOTUS ruling that allows one to refuse making websites for same sex couples. This whole case was based on a falsifi…

And? The other side was screaming at the top of their lungs that any business should be able to discriminate against a customer for not showing vaccine records.

The only conclusion I’ve come to is that everyone is a damn hypocrite. Everyone wants to discriminate against people not in their group because they’ve been brainwashed, and because people are assholes.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#199

Post by dogman144 »

jonasdegendt wrote: post #176
dogman144 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya I work in tech for the opp to keep it all at a distance from me. I’ve specifically thought about how stupid the loop is of building stuff at the computer and then turning around and consume all the same stuff I build for work (so to speak). Every time I’m on Reddit I hate myself. I also hate that that I can’t install an easy DNS blocking tool that isn’t likely selling my traffic and also works always (ie mobile an…

Just thinking out loud here because I haven’t actually looked into this, but isn’t the second half just running your own DNS with black lists and pointing your phone at it? Just did a quick search in my iPhone settings and it seems like I can’t actually set up DNS myself. I do know I can configure a VPN, point it at your home network, at that point the PiHole can do its thing again.

That’s an interesting approach, thanks for sharing. I will dig into both ideas more for cellular service blocking, thanks for breaking this open a bit for me.

I wish sometimes someone could offer up a solution where if I opted in, then reddit and the rest of my known offender websites that suck my time and attention abilities away get blocked for life. The issue, in my mind, is essentially mass auto-opting in to tech consumer patterns and it being very hard to “opt out” without data sales/privacy or DIY FOSS blocking.

I wish I had better willpower to stop my internet patterns organically, and I have axed out big chunks over the years (social media is only hackernews and LI for me). Or, I could probably reach out for an ADHD diagnosis. I’m fairly certain I don’t have it unless it’s some internet-induced version, but I know the RXs work for focus. I don’t want to get locked into a RX dependency just for 101 life functionality in the face of the internet though. Tough times.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#200

Post by RC_ITR »

JohnFen wrote: post #183
RC_ITR wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always think it’s so interesting that on the threads about counterculture, nobody brings up the obvious counterculture that is a huge topic of conversation in America: Homeless people. A large group of individuals who live their life very differently from the mainstream (countercultures do not have to be opt-in), who have completely different goals/morals/motivations than the mainstream, and are fully and violently…

> nobody brings up the obvious counterculture that is a huge topic of conversation in America: Homeless people. Oh, this is such an excellent point. I talk with a lot of homeless people regularly, and they've even begun to adopt a more overt tone of counterculture: I've been increasingly hearing fantasies from them about a "homeless uprising/revolution".

Well, and it's somewhat glib to make this point, but surprise surprise the epicenter of this phenomenon is the SF Bay Area...
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