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The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

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Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#121

Post by RC_ITR »

ravenstine wrote: post #19

The real counterculture right now is non-participation . In a world where virtually everything is either designed to completely waste your time or fail and not be repairable, it's a highly radical act to stop consuming like the 95%, preferring to spend time with other humans in reality doing something that isn't technological. In spite of the popular world pushing the message that you will be fulfilled living in virt…

I always think it’s so interesting that on the threads about counterculture, nobody brings up the obvious counterculture that is a huge topic of conversation in America: Homeless people.

A large group of individuals who live their life very differently from the mainstream (countercultures do not have to be opt-in), who have completely different goals/morals/motivations than the mainstream, and are fully and violently rejected by the mainstream.

I think the 1960’s mythology confused a lot of people into thinking that counterculture is what young white people choose to do to seem cool, but homeless people are actually probably the most prominent counterculture America has ever had.

In practice, it’s hard to think of something more core to American culture than private property ownership and we have an increasing large group of people who are not participants in that.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#122

Post by LordShredda »

robertlagrant wrote: post #64
spacemadness wrote: post #10

“Actual power keeps a low profile; actual power doesn’t need a social media presence, it owns social media.” So where does Elon fit in here?

Elon Musk is only powerful in that he is productive or enables productiveness, producing things that others find valuable and hard to produce. I.e. he's powerful in the capitalist sense, not the political sense.

He fired half the Twitter team,where does the produce come from

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#123

Post by extr0pian »

helen___keller wrote: post #114
dingusdew wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You had me until the weird put-down of soy and insects.

Some people really really hate tofu I guess. Probably never had a great mapo tofu, that stuff slaps

Tofu scrambles are awesome. One of my favorite meals is fried tofu with steamed broccoli and soy sauce.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#124

Post by hotpotamus »

xhkkffbf wrote: post #86
ravenstine wrote: post #19

The real counterculture right now is non-participation . In a world where virtually everything is either designed to completely waste your time or fail and not be repairable, it's a highly radical act to stop consuming like the 95%, preferring to spend time with other humans in reality doing something that isn't technological. In spite of the popular world pushing the message that you will be fulfilled living in virt…

There are dozens of memes floating around claiming that the counterculture is made of of people getting married to someone of the opposite sex, raising a family, practicing a religion, eating meals together, celebrating the holidays together etc. Naturally, these folks have left social networks like Facebook and Instagram far behind.

I would say that those subjects dominate my social media feed, but that wouldn't actually be true as my social media feed is currently mostly pictures of women whose nipples I can clearly see through their clothes which I would think would be against Meta's guidelines, but if it drives engagement, I suppose guidelines be damned. Either way, I consider it a big upgrade from political rage/engagement bait that they used to serve me constantly.

But the social media I see from my actual human friends is in fact about 95% what you posted, and is actually what I want from social media.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#125

Post by dragonwriter »

safety1st wrote: post #97
unpopularopp wrote: post #24

In 2023 counterculture is right wing but that's a hard to swallow pill for a lot

I don't think it's really right wing, there is an exodus of people from the Left as it becomes increasingly ideological, they may dally with the Right a bit - I think the first mention of this phenomenon was way back in 2014 by Scott Alexander as the "grey tribe" that was beginning to form: https://slatestarcodex.com/2014/09/30/i-can-tolerate-anythin... But these people aren't necessarily conservatives, at least as t…

> I don't think it's really right wing, there is an exodus of people from the Left as it becomes increasingly ideological, they may dally with the Right a bit - I think the first mention of this phenomenon was way back in 2014 by Scott Alexander as the "grey tribe" that was beginning to form:

No, there isn't and a sector defined by a particular ideological position doesn’t get “more ideological”. (There might be a belated exit of lingering ideological conservatives from the Democratic Party, a historically right-wing institution, as it has stabilized as the left-most major party with its main factions center-right neoliberal and center-left progressive, but most of that happened in the 1970s-1990s.)

It may also be the case that previously politically detached members of privileged groups that were well-served by the past status quo are becoming reactionarily defensive of their privileged status as it seems threatened but still identify with the privilege of being “apolitical” and with ideology being a thing other people do and they remain “above”, forming a group that is very much part of the reactionary right (with a very clear and self-focussed ideology) but identifies as “apolitical” and “non-ideological”. Which is a much better understanding of the “grey tribe”.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#126

Post by basisword »

jahewson wrote: post #95
basisword wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In what sense? The last 24 years in the US have/will be split equally between Democrat and Republican presidents. In the UK the majority of this century has been run by the Conservative party. The US Supreme Court is 'right leaning' and that's unlikely to change anytime soon. How can the right wing be the counter culture when it holds most of the power? [Obviously just looking at two countries I'm familiar with but r…

> The last 24 years in the US have/will be split equally between Democrat and Republican presidents. By this logic the counterculture can’t be left-wing either.

Why does the counter culture have to be left wing or right wing? It could be centrist. Apolitical. Based around other shared beliefs outside of political differences.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#127

Post by ekianjo »

ravenstine wrote: post #19

The real counterculture right now is non-participation . In a world where virtually everything is either designed to completely waste your time or fail and not be repairable, it's a highly radical act to stop consuming like the 95%, preferring to spend time with other humans in reality doing something that isn't technological. In spite of the popular world pushing the message that you will be fulfilled living in virt…

Real radicals dont have phones

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#128

Post by awongh »

tekla wrote: post #20

Counterculture requires gatekeeping, because most people can't take it, ESPECIALLY anyone who uses Instragram The best times I've had were having parties where we would work on cool exhibits with barely contained pyrotechnics, Tesla coils that would kill you if you touched it, and an expectation that YOU DO NOT PUT IT ON THE INTERNET and if you get hurt, YOU DID NOT GET HURT HERE. Everyone wants a nice and curated ex…

Besides literal physical danger another aspect I’ve been thinking about is the counterculture of activities that simply aren’t optimized for the production of media native to the internet.

Meditation or maybe partner dancing for example. There’s definitely plenty of internet content on both, but it feels to me like there’s certain things I can do that don’t as easily translate to an instagram story, and the reason I do them is because I benefit with some internally directed experience. A sort of connection with myself or another person. This feels like the exact opposite of doing something for the purpose of the resulting content and/or social approval.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#129

Post by hutzlibu »

jononomo wrote: post #94
krapp wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"never trust anyone over 30" was a maxim for a reason. It's difficult to fight culture once you've become invested in the status quo, and so alienated by the cutting edge that modernity disgusts you.

My motto is "don't trust anyone under 30" -- because in my experience they just don't know enough yet to have valuable opinions and also because the kids these days have a value system that deifies mental illness and victimhood, and I'm just not interested in the opinions of people who operate from a mentally-ill victimhood stance.

But do you actually interact with kids?

If you would, you might find that there are differences, just like with old people.

Re: The internet didn’t kill counterculture, it's just not on Instagram (2021)

#130

Post by haswell »

mihaic wrote: post #68
sodapopcan wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing the point of the comment. Saying "don't do these things" isn't helpful because people are going to do them regardless. OP is saying it should not be on the mainstream internet, ie, the open "gatekeeping required" statement.

That post does make it sounds very cool to do all these things though, so I'd say it's good to have a balancing post that says that risking body parts for a thrill is uncool.

> risking body parts for a thrill is uncool

- Free divers

- Rock climbers

- Motorcycle riders

- Mountain bikers

- Sky divers

- Skateboarders

- Glider pilots

- Base jumpers

There is a vast array of body-part-risking hobbies with a spectrum of associated risk.

While I’m not one to encourage obvious stupidity, bodily risk is at the center of so many things that humans value, that I think there’s a framing problem by saying this is just uncool.

More interesting is to explore why people are drawn to these things to begin with, and to examine why we dismiss some categories of risk as unnecessary or stupid while other socially acceptable risks are part of our daily lives.

When I was a kid, I was drawn to model rocketry. I’m surprised my fingers are all still intact, but some close calls quickly reoriented my precautionary measures (I started being a lot more careful).

The book “Flow” explores why some people do the things they do, and it seems that engaging in risky endeavors like rock climbing can be rewarding because of the feeling of flow and control one experiences.

“Try crazy stuff but be as safe as you can be, and avoid impacting others” seems better than “uncool”, IMO.

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