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Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

wsj.com

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Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#71

Post by carlmr »

lynx23 wrote: post #61
somethoughts wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely feels like there should be a "law of headlines" coined to effect of - something must always either be surging catastrophically or plummeting disatrously.

The truth is, journalism has cratered. However, most are not ready to accept the truth, since they still believe the media are an essential part of democracy.

Good news reporting is an essential part of democracy. We don't have it anymore. Nobody wants to pay for it.

We'll see how it goes.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#72

Post by listenallyall »

mberning wrote: post #31
listenallyall wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, you can always find some people struggling. But your statement simply doesn't match reality. Retail sales are growing fast https://nrf.com/media-center/press-releases/nrf-forecasts-20... . Discretionary spending on travel is through the roof. https://www.mastercardservices.com/en/reports-insights/econo...

You seriously want to toss out travel spending as an indicator of how well things are going for the general population? Travel is a luxury, and rich people are not hurting yet. The people at the bottom of the economy ,your average walmart and target shopper, is who is hurting. Also, raw dollars is not a good metric for how much stuff is being bought. Sales in dollars can be way up, but the amount or quantity of goods…

I've been on a lot of flights lately, and in a lot of tourist towns. It ain't all rich people.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#73

Post by viknesh »

dalyons wrote: post #6

That’s a pretty manipulative graph. Show the pre pandemic spot rates! From the article “ Box-ship operators were among the biggest pandemic winners. Orders for imported goods began to climb in 2020 …” so why doesn’t it show 2020 then?

Looking at the exact same source as the WSJ graphic used, you can see it was quite cherrypicked: https://fbx.freightos.com/

From that source, the average rate in May 2019 was about $1350, and according to the most recent datapoint, it's currently at about $1450. In 2019 dollars (using CPI), that's about $1220.

Seems like it is down 10%, but that's not nearly as dramatic as the WSJ graph would make it appear.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#74

Post by switch007 »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #8

> The rates for both trade lanes are hovering around 2019 levels, but fuel and labor expenses are higher now than before the pandemic. Hard to really feel like this is a crisis, since all of the reporting is how there was a brief, glorious period (for the companies) of 10x prices, and the crisis is that the period is ended.

I can’t wait for all the retailers who jacked their prices and advertised that it was directly due to shipping by rates to also now similarly advertise a massive drop in prices …

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#75

Post by eastbound »

eyelidlessness wrote: post #64
eastbound wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The law of headlines should also mention that they mention events in the future: “Today, we expect the president to meet with xyz and announce what they will do with abc”, building up the thrill, rather than reporting when it’s done and the announcement is made. Journalists talking about the future. That’s not journalism.

Yes, it is. Being aware of how the immediate future is shaped by already made decisions helps to inform people who wouldn’t otherwise know what’s pending. The contrary journalistic standard would be, well, the first chapter of Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy.

No.

It’s a journalism of building up expectations and hyping up the dopamine, ie it’s barely marketing. Journalism is about reporting information. Information about future events is not information.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#76

Post by consp »

SargeDebian wrote: post #55
swyx wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i checked the BDI https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/baltic its exactly at the historical 30 year average. nothing to see here lol

Not saying that the article's framing is correct, but being at the 30y average does sound like a bad situation for shipping companies - they must have had some rising costs.

Or have optimizations and economies of scale in place to offset the increase in costs. My money is on that.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#77

Post by stonogo »

Grimburger wrote: post #62
mberning wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their plan to curtail inflation has always been demand destruction. Which means callous layoffs, unemployment, and misery for the workforce. We are just now seeing the effects, so expect it to get worse from here. We are a few more earnings misses, fumble of the debt ceiling, and another bank collapse away from a depression.

> callous layoffs, unemployment, and misery for the workforce US unemployment is hovering around 50 years lows. Probably better to look at the actual stats rather than listen to the constant doom-peddling that comes from the media. https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/unemployment-rate

US labor force participation rate is also at historic lows. A low unemployment rate only considers the active labor force. There aren't as many people working as a fraction of population as you think. Doom peddling and stats can line up.

https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/USA/united-states/labo...

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#78

Post by lynx23 »

carlmr wrote: post #71
lynx23 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The truth is, journalism has cratered. However, most are not ready to accept the truth, since they still believe the media are an essential part of democracy.

Good news reporting is an essential part of democracy. We don't have it anymore. Nobody wants to pay for it. We'll see how it goes.

Lamenting the unwillingness to pay for trash is a hopeless cause. The cat bites its own tale. Most news outlets I know have deteriorated so much in quality that I would never even think about paying for any of that propaganda. Give me a good, balanced, non-pliticized and honest news site, and I might consider supporting them.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#79

Post by orwin »

bandrami wrote: post #56
glup wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that’s an inclusive “or”, mind you-- I remember an Al-Jazeera news story that opened with the line “Some say the new measures go too far… but do the new measures go far enough?”

It's annoying because the "Critics charge X but supporters say Y" is an easy template for lazy journalism, and you invariably end up just re-typing the press releases of two competing advocacy organizations. If the Association of Umbrella Manufacturers says it's raining outside and the Organization of Sunscreen Bottlers says it's sunny, the reporter needs to open the window and look rather than just forwarding those…

Exactly my grip with CNN and others news channel trying the 'middle ground' like BBC. I'd rather watch media with declared bias like Fox News than CNN/BBC where the bias is only visible in subject choices and editors/presentators are afraid to get wet. Upside : that's allow for a quick U-turn.

By the way, I know an independent journalist: the version you get on TV is often the editor's cut. Sometimes journalists are only reporters, but more often than not there is censorship (or self-censorship for non independent journalists) in the editor's room. That's why report from the same journalist can be used by 'liberal news' and ' conservative news' (not idea if that happens in the US, but in my country it does.)

Honestly, you'll be better served with local newspapers. Or independent local news.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#80

Post by peepeepoopoo6 »

visarga wrote: post #60
nologic01 wrote: post #24

The shock of the onset and "anti"-shock of the fizzling of the pandemic must be the most dramatic economic experiment for some time. Its like throwing a stone in a stagnant pond and watching the waves go up and down. Except the economic fluid is far more complex, full of lags and hysteresis. E.g. shipping rates have gone down but not the costs (indicated as fuel and labor). Why not? Nobody wants to leave a crisis go…

> Except the economic fluid is far more complex, full of lags and hysteresis. You mean it is learning? Hysteresis is "local learning".

That's not what that word means.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hysteresis

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