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Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

wsj.com

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Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#31

Post by mberning »

listenallyall wrote: post #27
mberning wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The demand for shipping containers is driven by demand for goods which is driven by consumption which is declining because people do not have the money for imported goods. Many people are struggling just to make rent and put food on the table. Buying things imported from abroad is on the back burner. The spending power of the consumer, or lack, is why demand is down and supply up.

Sure, you can always find some people struggling. But your statement simply doesn't match reality. Retail sales are growing fast https://nrf.com/media-center/press-releases/nrf-forecasts-20... . Discretionary spending on travel is through the roof. https://www.mastercardservices.com/en/reports-insights/econo...

You seriously want to toss out travel spending as an indicator of how well things are going for the general population? Travel is a luxury, and rich people are not hurting yet. The people at the bottom of the economy ,your average walmart and target shopper, is who is hurting. Also, raw dollars is not a good metric for how much stuff is being bought. Sales in dollars can be way up, but the amount or quantity of goods can be flat or down when those goods are being purchased with a rapidly debased currency.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#32

Post by somethoughts »

CGamesPlay wrote: post #8

> The rates for both trade lanes are hovering around 2019 levels, but fuel and labor expenses are higher now than before the pandemic. Hard to really feel like this is a crisis, since all of the reporting is how there was a brief, glorious period (for the companies) of 10x prices, and the crisis is that the period is ended.

Definitely feels like there should be a "law of headlines" coined to effect of - something must always either be surging catastrophically or plummeting disatrously.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#33

Post by gambiting »

Culonavirus wrote: post #28
nologic01 wrote: post #24

The shock of the onset and "anti"-shock of the fizzling of the pandemic must be the most dramatic economic experiment for some time. Its like throwing a stone in a stagnant pond and watching the waves go up and down. Except the economic fluid is far more complex, full of lags and hysteresis. E.g. shipping rates have gone down but not the costs (indicated as fuel and labor). Why not? Nobody wants to leave a crisis go…

Speaking of economic fluid, here's a fun fact: Value of assets on the balance sheet of the Federal Reserve in 2007: 0.9 trillion Value of assets on the balance sheet of the Federal Reserve in 2022: 9 trillion

I don't really understand what this implies?

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#35

Post by bandyaboot »

listenallyall wrote: post #25
bandyaboot wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not quite accurate. https://theloadstar.com/hapag-lloyd-racks-up-massive-3-4bn-p... > Putting the fifth-largest ocean carrier’s earnings into context, [their profit for the first three quarters of 2021 exceeded] its return from the whole of the past five years.

With all due respect, that appears to be cherry-picking. Why focus on the 5th largest company exclusively? Did the top 4 not have huge profit growth and fit comfortably into your narrative? There's also the accounting profits that may occur due to something other than simple operations, for example, if the company bought long-term fuel futures, they may have been taking an accounting loss every quarter until oil pric…

It was the first article I found that specifically referred to profit numbers during peak pandemic. The shipping industry being quite fungible, there was really no need to continue digging given the point I was refuting.

If you were interested in the answer to your question about the top 4 companies and my “narrative”. You could have quite easily found that information yourself.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#37

Post by Sparkyte »

It isn't very efficienct honestly. It is better to produce a lot of the little components ship those and then complete assembly at the destination. One it ensures jobs, two is prevents cargo from getting stuck in places.

Source production is not only more energy efficient but also a great way to increase profits in certain territories. Also it will balance much of the economy internationally.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#38

Post by refurb »

dalyons wrote: post #6

That’s a pretty manipulative graph. Show the pre pandemic spot rates! From the article “ Box-ship operators were among the biggest pandemic winners. Orders for imported goods began to climb in 2020 …” so why doesn’t it show 2020 then?

Nobody is interested to read an article an article that says “Container rates have returned to pre-pandemic numbers”.

BORING

So you just reduce your time scale and talk about the massive drop.

I’m shocked they didn’t have a headline that said “If current price drops continue, by 2025 container rates will be negative!!”

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#39

Post by glup »

somethoughts wrote: post #32
CGamesPlay wrote: post #8

> The rates for both trade lanes are hovering around 2019 levels, but fuel and labor expenses are higher now than before the pandemic. Hard to really feel like this is a crisis, since all of the reporting is how there was a brief, glorious period (for the companies) of 10x prices, and the crisis is that the period is ended.

Definitely feels like there should be a "law of headlines" coined to effect of - something must always either be surging catastrophically or plummeting disatrously.

And that’s an inclusive “or”, mind you-- I remember an Al-Jazeera news story that opened with the line “Some say the new measures go too far… but do the new measures go far enough?”
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