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Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

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21–30 of 220 posts

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#21

The shipping companies should be fine because they were prudent and kept some of that pandemic windfall in reserve to cover for this scenario…right?

[flagged]

How does untimely offloading negate 10x price increases? It’s not like they needed eg 10x the fuel.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#23
post #9

Isn't this just a sign that the Fed's tamping-down of inflation is working?

Their plan to curtail inflation has always been demand destruction. Which means callous layoffs, unemployment, and misery for the workforce. We are just now seeing the effects, so expect it to get worse from here. We are a few more earnings misses, fumble of the debt ceiling, and another bank collapse away from a depression.

Why a depression and not simply a recession?

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#24
The shock of the onset and "anti"-shock of the fizzling of the pandemic must be the most dramatic economic experiment for some time.

Its like throwing a stone in a stagnant pond and watching the waves go up and down.

Except the economic fluid is far more complex, full of lags and hysteresis. E.g. shipping rates have gone down but not the costs (indicated as fuel and labor). Why not?

Nobody wants to leave a crisis go to waste (i.e. groups of people will try to maximize and make their monetary gains permanent) but there are restoring forces towards the underlying equilibrium supply and demand balances.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

That’s not quite accurate. https://theloadstar.com/hapag-lloyd-racks-up-massive-3-4bn-p... > Putting the fifth-largest ocean carrier’s earnings into context, [their profit for the first three quarters of 2021 exceeded] its return from the whole of the past five years.

With all due respect, that appears to be cherry-picking. Why focus on the 5th largest company exclusively? Did the top 4 not have huge profit growth and fit comfortably into your narrative?

There's also the accounting profits that may occur due to something other than simple operations, for example, if the company bought long-term fuel futures, they may have been taking an accounting loss every quarter until oil prices blew up, and now that same contract, a result of financial engineering, delivers massive profit all at once.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the contrary, it means people's spending power is increasing because supply is getting cheaper.

The demand for shipping containers is driven by demand for goods which is driven by consumption which is declining because people do not have the money for imported goods. Many people are struggling just to make rent and put food on the table. Buying things imported from abroad is on the back burner. The spending power of the consumer, or lack, is why demand is down and supply up.

Sure, you can always find some people struggling. But your statement simply doesn't match reality. Retail sales are growing fast https://nrf.com/media-center/press-releases/nrf-forecasts-20.... Discretionary spending on travel is through the roof. https://www.mastercardservices.com/en/reports-insights/econo...

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#28

The shock of the onset and "anti"-shock of the fizzling of the pandemic must be the most dramatic economic experiment for some time. Its like throwing a stone in a stagnant pond and watching the waves go up and down. Except the economic fluid is far more complex, full of lags and hysteresis. E.g. shipping rates have gone down but not the costs (indicated as fuel and labor). Why not? Nobody wants to leave a crisis go…

Speaking of economic fluid, here's a fun fact:

Value of assets on the balance sheet of the Federal Reserve in 2007: 0.9 trillion

Value of assets on the balance sheet of the Federal Reserve in 2022: 9 trillion

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s not quite accurate. https://theloadstar.com/hapag-lloyd-racks-up-massive-3-4bn-p... > Putting the fifth-largest ocean carrier’s earnings into context, [their profit for the first three quarters of 2021 exceeded] its return from the whole of the past five years.

With all due respect, that appears to be cherry-picking. Why focus on the 5th largest company exclusively? Did the top 4 not have huge profit growth and fit comfortably into your narrative? There's also the accounting profits that may occur due to something other than simple operations, for example, if the company bought long-term fuel futures, they may have been taking an accounting loss every quarter until oil pric…

> Did the top 4 not have hug e profit growth and fit comfortably into your narrative?

https://accountable.us/report-top-5-shipping-companies-saw-p...

"Fits your narrative" is a relatively aggressive position to take against such a comment.

Re: Container shipping has cratered, as ship owners try to avoid unprofitable trips

#30
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

How does untimely offloading negate 10x price increases? It’s not like they needed eg 10x the fuel.

Every day the container ship is sitting outside port waiting to offload is a day it is not shipping goods, and I'm guessing a large container ship is a fairly expensive asset with a limited lifespan.
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