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iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

techcrunch.com

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Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#221

Post by cronix »

rickdeckard wrote: post #216
cronix wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm the opposite, as looking at android, where do we see this? For one, DJI drone software. It's available in the Apple store but you have to sideload it for Android. DJI isn't a small company, and there is quite a large professional market. Edit: meant apple app store, not play store...fixed for clarity

Sorry, if it's available in the play store, why do I have to sideload it for Android?

Because Apple forced DJI to comply for their version, but since sideloading is available on Android as an alternative, they basically told Google to go pound sand.

Edit: I misspoke in my original, which I fixed

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#222

Post by tgv »

waboremo wrote: post #117
jamil7 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Sideloading is full of risks, and I don't love it. But it's at least a little bit of competition to push Apple towards make the App Store useful again. As someone who develops for the platform, I tend to agree, I'll probably never distribute apps with sideloading, but I think ultimately it's a good thing. I'd also be happy if it attracts more interest and developers to the platform who were previously turned off by…

It should at the very least help with Safari. What a dreadful existence that browser is when you can't get extensions into the store without paying the 99/yr fee, which has stopped a lot of potential ports from happening. Most ports right now are quite gnarly, you have to jump through a multi step build process just to do what other browsers can handle in a single click or drag and drop. Other methods I've seen invol…

That won't happen. People will install Chrome, and that's the end of it. Well, not the end of Google, of course, which will now have even more opportinuties to grab your data and sell your privacy.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#223

Post by op00to »

andai wrote: post #104
Edd314159 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, and the idea of a sideload-able iOS makes me very uneasy. I like the idea of Apple aligning itself with the user to protect me and, more importantly, my tech-unsavvy friends and family, from scams, data-hoarding apps, and just generally crappy software. I don't mind that they take a portion of revenue in return for providing that platform (30% feels too much, but you can't argue that it should be zero). Unfo…

[flagged]

I certainly align with powerful entities taking away some semblance of freedom for protection:

1. I am a citizen of a country, so I give some freedoms away to have a military, police force, etc.

2. I work for a company, so I give some freedoms away to gain economic security.

3. I am part of a family, so I give some freedoms away to ensure my family is stable and secure.

4. I drive a car, and I give the freedom to not submit to a brethalyzer test to ensure I can get to places further than I can walk.

You do too.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#224

Post by GeekyBear »

andsoitis wrote: post #208
GeekyBear wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm the opposite, as looking at android, where do we see this? Where do we see Android devices with apps like Facebook preinstalled, unremovable and granted root permissions? All over the ecosystem.

Only Apple sells iPhones, so I wouldn’t worry about preinstalled 3rd party apps with root permissions like we see on Android phones.

Only Facebook makes the Facebook app, and I find it extremely easy to imagine a Facebook app that can only be sideloaded, so that Facebook can bypass the restrictions put in place by the App Store.

For instance, Apps are currently not allowed to degrade functionality if the user says no to a permissions request (e.g. location tracking).

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#225

Post by Rhedox »

TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

It's the OS that enforces privacy and security, not the App Store. They won't be able to do much more than they can now.

Besides, they'll stay on the App Store just like they are still on the Google Play Store on Android where side loading has been possible since version 1.0.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#226

Post by r053bud »

andsoitis wrote: post #138
TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

> I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Apple is a saint?

From reading through this thread, it sounds like most people think they are

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#227

Post by onli »

op00to wrote: post #214
onli wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a talking point. I'm sorry that it is negative and it might not fair to the parent commenter, but it's obvious bs. It is a propaganda point that was placed somehow into the discussion and gets repeated again and again. In no world does it make any sense that an app like FB would not try to be in every big store, but here we are, having that "concern" repeated under every Apple sideloading discussion. Propaganda…

The difference between the Play store and the Apple App store is that the Play store doesn't even pretend to protect against apps that do underhanded, unexpected, and intrusive things. There are numerous stories of iOS apps being pulled out of the store for using private APIs to bypass this or that protection.

That's not true. The Play store absolutely promises such protection, and Google adds more protection measures every year. The Android system even warns you when you install apps from other sources. Also see the related https://support.google.com/googleplay/answer/2812853?hl=en.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#228

Post by standardUser »

askafriend wrote: post #176
jmull wrote: post #93

Having "side loading" -- also known as regular app installation on non-phone platforms -- hasn't caused chaos on desktop platforms or android. No reason to think it will on iOS either.

You’re giving away your age with this comment. Of course it has caused chaos on desktop platforms, especially Windows in the early 2000s, late 90s. Since that era, it’s slowly dug itself out of that hole.

I was there. It was not chaos.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#229

Post by peoplefromibiza »

andruby wrote: post #186
jmull wrote: post #93

Having "side loading" -- also known as regular app installation on non-phone platforms -- hasn't caused chaos on desktop platforms or android. No reason to think it will on iOS either.

> hasn't caused chaos on desktop platforms I beg to differ. How many windows machines were infected in the early 2000's? Would bot-nets exist if Windows had a strict app store back then? Now: I will agree that freedom to install any software on desktops has been wonderful, and I hope it remains, but I wouldn't say it hasn't caused chaos.

> How many windows machines were infected in the early 2000's?

Yeah, that's a very bad analogy, it wasn't about side loading, even assuming that MS was able to vet every application out there, which nobody was technologically or had the resources to or wanted to, the infrastructure wasn't there, the OS security was worse than today and based on different assumptions entirely, the responsibility is still in the hands of the user, and, most of all, with good reason users pushed back on the all TPM/Trusted Computing thing.

So they did not want that feature and voted with their money, until they could not vote anymore, because smartphone ruined it for everyone except Google and Apple.

edit:

besides (obviously) RMS [1] being right and opposing to TC/TPM, this BBC article from 2005 [2] summarizes what even users there were not particularly tech savy thought about the topic

A couple of significant quotes

computing base is also used to make digital rights management systems more secure, this will give content providers a lot more control over what we can do with music, movies and books that we have bought from them

We need to ensure that trusted computing remains under the control of the users and is not used to take away the freedoms we enjoy today

[1] https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/can-you-trust.html

[2] http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4360793.stm

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#230

Post by ye-olde-sysrq »

browningstreet wrote: post #137

One upside I haven't seen discussed a lot about this: sideloading your own apps. I don't care, and don't really imagine, sideloading others' apps... but this could give rise to a hobbyist/customization wave again.

This is my plan, I'm super excited about this change.

I plan to sideload exactly 0 non-play-store apps except maybe dolphin or similar big-name open source things.

I DO plan to sideload two apps of my own (currently web apps but they suffer for being so, as opposed to being native), and while I know apple has given some ways previously to let you have "private" apps etc, they still require paying a ton of money AND you still have to get them approved by Apple!!

I was sad when I left android solely for the reason of sideloading apps, but given I'd used android for ages and only sideloaded two apps: dolphin and one of my own custom apps that I had stopped developing, I figured it wouldn't be a big deal. But I'm looking forward to this a lot now.

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