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iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

techcrunch.com

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Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#141

Post by lbotos »

TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

To support sideloading do they have to "Relax control" though?

I think the fear is "sideloaded apps can do bad things" and my answer is make the OS better and more clearly manage bad things?

What are the bad things we imagine a sideloaded app could do? Like it still has to follow the platform APIs right? It would have to ask for perms? Sure, it could have egregious tracking or spam, or hostile ads, but app store apps already have this??

I'm genuinely asking: What risk am I missing?

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#142

Post by onli »

josephcsible wrote: post #132
TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

Why is everyone so worried that Facebook, etc. will pull out of the App Store and require sideloading on iOS just because it'll be possible, when they haven't pulled out of the Play Store or required sideloading on Android where that's already been possible all along?

It's a talking point. I'm sorry that it is negative and it might not fair to the parent commenter, but it's obvious bs. It is a propaganda point that was placed somehow into the discussion and gets repeated again and again. In no world does it make any sense that an app like FB would not try to be in every big store, but here we are, having that "concern" repeated under every Apple sideloading discussion.

Propaganda is fucking awesome in how effective it can be. And equally dangerous.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#144

Post by pjc50 »

jclardy wrote: post #125
TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

I'm the opposite, as looking at android, where do we see this? All big players are still in the play store, because the average user of those services doesn't want to be bothered going to a website, clicking scary looking buttons to enable third party installs, then manually update their own installed apps. Basically the risk would be someone like TikTok dropping out of the store, but I find that unlikely. Maybe at t…

Possibly this is preparation for TikTok being forced out of the store by the US government? But they'd still like to offer it, to avoid losing business to Android if that becomes the only platform with TikTok.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#145

Post by bena »

darkwater wrote: post #124
bena wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you're missing something. Meta makes the Facebook app. Currently, the only way to get the Facebook app on iOS is through Apple's App Store. Which means Meta has to follow all of Apple's guidelines. Once sideloading is allowed, Meta can make a version of their app that does not follow Apple's guidelines. Now, they can maintain two apps, but last time I checked, the cost of maintaining one app was lower than th…

> I don't have the freedom to choose the version of the app I want. And now I can't actually trust any of the apps out there because none of them are required to follow any of Apple's guidelines. You don't have that "freedom" right now either, it's just the Apple Store one. Also the law is about giving options on the distribution system, not on "app versions". So if Epic or 37 Signals use their own channel to distrib…

Right, but the person I responded to spoke as if this was going to be a way to increase consumer choice. It's not.

Everyone will not get "the privacy/control tradeoff they want". They're going to get whatever the creator of the app decides. And sure, for TODO apps, you can choose from the 15 billion ones out there. But if you want ride-sharing, you have Lyft and Uber. If you want specific services, you will have to use their app.

And after the shit Epic pulled, I don't really think I want them in control of the payment processing portion.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#146

Post by willis936 »

lbotos wrote: post #141
TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

To support sideloading do they have to "Relax control" though? I think the fear is "sideloaded apps can do bad things" and my answer is make the OS better and more clearly manage bad things? What are the bad things we imagine a sideloaded app could do? Like it still has to follow the platform APIs right? It would have to ask for perms? Sure, it could have egregious tracking or spam, or hostile ads, but app store apps…

The risk of big companies like Meta requiring users to sideload in order to use their service. To me the answer is obvious: don't use services provided by Meta. They can choose to race to the bottom all they want. I welcome the freedom to use my phone the way I want to.

If bad actors choose to misbehave don't blame the medium they're misbehaving on. This line of thinking is similar to negotiating with terrorists.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#147

Post by yamtaddle »

jclardy wrote: post #125
TexanFeller wrote: post #10

I'm dreading this. I want privacy hostile companies like Facebook to have to comply with the app store rules and respect system settings relating to privacy. As a user, I'm thrilled when Apple wields its big stick to stop big tech companies from overreaching. Before there was a bit of a compromise, I could use evil apps with some peace of mind that they wouldn't do something egregious. Now I suspect evil apps just wo…

I'm the opposite, as looking at android, where do we see this? All big players are still in the play store, because the average user of those services doesn't want to be bothered going to a website, clicking scary looking buttons to enable third party installs, then manually update their own installed apps. Basically the risk would be someone like TikTok dropping out of the store, but I find that unlikely. Maybe at t…

> I'm the opposite, as looking at android, where do we see this?

1) Android hasn't made things as hard for malware vendors as Apple has, and

2) Android's not as lucrative a market as iOS

Those together mean incentives are significantly different, so we might not see the same behavior on iOS as we have on Android, from companies that are upset about not being able to to distribute as-effective malware as they'd prefer. Like Facebook.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#149

Post by scarface74 »

musictubes wrote: post #136
EMIRELADERO wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I got from the comment was that the overall intention and push behind sideloading, both by the community and what the EU mandates, is to not be bound by Apple's policies for appmaking, not just to use your own distribution infrastructure.

As far as I can tell the main use case for side loading that people are making inevitably boils down to piracy. Emulators, torrents, cracked software. 95% of the talk about “freedom” on Android revolves around Vanced and other kinds of piracy. I’m glad to see people talking about alternative browsers for PWAs (yuck) and open source projects but I am thoroughly cynical about the motivations of the vast majority of peo…

> I worry that this ability to pirate like you can on Android will result in degradation in app quality in the App Store.

Is it possible for quality on the App Store to get any lower?

80% of App Store revenue comes from Pay to Win games (according to the Epic trial). Most of the other apps monetize through subscriptions for things like streaming services or don’t charge money at all.

Re: iOS 17 will reportedly set the stage for sideloading apps on iPhone

#150

Post by Hamuko »

mort96 wrote: post #123
FloatArtifact wrote: post #86

Having the power to choose side load is a net benefit. For those that have any sort of fear, they simply just get apps from the official store. Could and will people be taking advantage of by side loaded apps? The obvious answer is yes, it's a risk that allows for responsibility and freedom.

What happens when the apps which used to be available on the app store get taken down and made sideload-only, like what Epic did with Fortnite on Android?

>like what Epic did with Fortnite on Android?

Epic pulled Fortnite from Google Play Store in 2018 because they wanted to keep more of Google's 30% share and they were back in 18 months because most people aren't that determined to get an app outside of the official app store.

Any company pulling their apps from the App Store must have a pretty good reason to do so, because they're gonna be decimating their download numbers.

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