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The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

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Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#131

Post by jollyllama »

_piif wrote: post #123
paulmd wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have a lot of fond memories of playing on stupid custom TF2 maps. typical pl_badwater fan vs average koth_trainsawlaser enjoyer my guilty pleasure was 32v32 fast spawn on the usual payload and a/d standards, with regulars it is a very fun format. Yes, it is highly spammy and teams generally run multiple combos, and that changes up the tactics a lot. A pair of krubered demos (two combos) can break through (mk V.ba…

>The late-game balance changes (iron bomber, air strike, parachute, combo pyro nerf, everything) really all made the game worse in the name of "e-sports matchmaking" that never materialized. I would like to go back to the Love and War update plz, but keep the airblast changes and maybe a very few choice others, but that was peak funhaving and then the nerf bat came down for fun and meme loadouts to make the game "goo…

The game had already been ruined before 2014. The Mann vs Machine update was not good for the game. Free to play was the end of a lot of social mores that held the game/community together: ex. the backburner was op and nobody used it, if you did, you were ostracized. A month after, the Grordbort update of 2011 was also really bad; the laser weapons were obnoxious and if you had a lower end graphics card, broke the game update for you. Pre 2011 TF2 was completely different, for the better.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#132

Post by yrro »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #35
hackernewds wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Remember Counter Strike was not an independent game. It was a mod of Halo. Halo did not offer a downloaded level editor.

It was Half Life and people typically used QuArK (Quake Army Knife) an open source tool originally made for Quake 1/2 maps, but Half Life used the same map file format. Later along Valve released Hammer, their own level editor.

QuArK, my first introduction to Python scripting. Python 1.5, if I remember correctly...

Gosh, it's still around, and its web site looks identical to how I remember it looking 25 years ago! https://quark.sourceforge.io/

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#133

Post by c-hendricks »

fps_doug wrote: post #128
0cVlTeIATBs wrote: post #125

>fy_iceworld’s buyzone rests obliviously in the center of the map in a dangerously cramped no man’s land. >This placement makes it extremely difficult to spend any money, which basically blocks off Counter-Strike’s central progression and loadout system while creating this funny risky incentive to rush into the middle before the buytime closes. 95% of the time, you’ll just get gunned down from 3 different sides. But…

Didn't even need a macro or anything, hitting b+ + was quite fast to pull off.

My password years ago used to be my counter strike buy menu keys when on the T team.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#135

Post by dijksterhuis »

mschuster91 wrote: post #101
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #28

I wonder with all the people growing up, getting old, becoming game developers, do these people just not care about these old cool features that have gone away that entirely changed the gaming experience for kids? I remember making friends across multiple age groups in community servers that you could always come back to because someone was kind enough to lease a server for a few bucks a month. I remember young peopl…

> I wonder with all the people growing up, getting old, becoming game developers, do these people just not care about these old cool features that have gone away that entirely changed the gaming experience for kids? The game developers care, the problem is management as you said... for a multitude of reasons: 1. companies are afraid of a repeat of GTA Hot Coffee - basically, enraged parents shitstorming because modde…

There are two counter examples to your points

Arma 3 and DayZ Stand-alone.

1. Bohemia built modding into the games. Australians wanted to ban DayZ for a marijuana mod. The shitstorm was minor. And the game was never banned.

Most servers that try to use… distasteful mods… tend to die a fairly fast death once the novelty wears off.

2. Central servers are not moderated. Instead they use BattleEye, which is just awful (2 week lead time to bans, if they even get detected).

Because of that terrible anti-cheat system, it has actually lead to thriving communities which are actively moderated. Where all those sorts of behaviours you describe are often an instant ban offence.

3. Active community moderation deals with this. Check out AnarchyHD. Or check out this twitch clip of StevESP getting banned on stream https://clips.twitch.tv/KnottyResourcefulBubbleteaBuddhaBar-...

4. No you can’t. You have to grow your user base. DayZ recently reached a new peak in simultaneous player population. Almost 10 years later. This isn’t the first time they’ve hit a new peak over the last year or two either.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#136

Post by _piif »

jollyllama wrote: post #131
_piif wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The late-game balance changes (iron bomber, air strike, parachute, combo pyro nerf, everything) really all made the game worse in the name of "e-sports matchmaking" that never materialized. I would like to go back to the Love and War update plz, but keep the airblast changes and maybe a very few choice others, but that was peak funhaving and then the nerf bat came down for fun and meme loadouts to make the game "goo…

The game had already been ruined before 2014. The Mann vs Machine update was not good for the game. Free to play was the end of a lot of social mores that held the game/community together: ex. the backburner was op and nobody used it, if you did, you were ostracized. A month after, the Grordbort update of 2011 was also really bad; the laser weapons were obnoxious and if you had a lower end graphics card, broke the ga…

I personally liked MvM as a cooperative gamemode which added more depth to the classes in the form of upgrades. Easily accumulated a couple of thousand hours just playing that either on boot camp valve servers or community ones with custom maps and plugins (off the top of my head UberUpgrades and Potato come to mind).

Didn't particularly like mann up as a) it costs money for each tour and b) it heavily incentivized you to win by giving you the chance to win a expensive shiny golden gun, which in return made players just develop some meta which they religiously sticked to and vote kick you for deviating from it even a tiny bit, or god forbid making even the slightest mistake. From my experience most players were in it for those items which they could sell for a profit, actual fun be damned.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#137

Post by metadat »

Dachande663 wrote: post #60

The creator of de_dust (amongst others), did some great write ups[0] on how and why he made maps like he did. It’s a lost art now everything is squeezed through playtesting and data analysis. https://www.johnsto.co.uk/design/making-dust2/

Fantastic article, so interesting I chose to submit it (has not yet ever caught on for any HN discussion):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34926478

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#138

Post by ajkjk »

feoren wrote: post #59
nerdponx wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And Starcraft!

The Tower Defense genre was invented in Starcraft custom maps, all the way back to the popular Starship Troopers maps, then Bunker Defense, and so on. MOBAs were invented in Warcraft 3 custom maps with the original DOTA. It's so clear how beneficial it is to any creative sphere to have those rapid development loops, where you can go from having a cool idea to having random strangers playing it within a few days. Ther…

I think there are a ton of SC (and other RTSes like AOE) mods which are just waiting to be made into standalone games. "Nexus Wars" comes to mind as a favorite. But there were so many, I wish I could remember them.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#139

Post by jollyllama »

_piif wrote: post #136
jollyllama wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The game had already been ruined before 2014. The Mann vs Machine update was not good for the game. Free to play was the end of a lot of social mores that held the game/community together: ex. the backburner was op and nobody used it, if you did, you were ostracized. A month after, the Grordbort update of 2011 was also really bad; the laser weapons were obnoxious and if you had a lower end graphics card, broke the ga…

I personally liked MvM as a cooperative gamemode which added more depth to the classes in the form of upgrades. Easily accumulated a couple of thousand hours just playing that either on boot camp valve servers or community ones with custom maps and plugins (off the top of my head UberUpgrades and Potato come to mind). Didn't particularly like mann up as a) it costs money for each tour and b) it heavily incentivized y…

MvM isn't the issue; the other changes, like adding the Sentry Buster, were bad for the existing meta on a lot of other modes without adding anything better.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#140

Post by archagon »

bob1029 wrote: post #112

These types of layouts always appealed to some fundamental part of my brain. The accessibility, repeatability, speed , etc. These experiences are the antithesis of a battle royale or other modern arena shooter. You can literally play for 3 minutes and complete 5-10 logical games. Its almost like a time machine for fun. I've been working on my own game based upon this style of simple map. I intend to feature this "4-b…

Half-Life DM had custom “killbox” maps that were a more complex variant of this. They were tons of fun.
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