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The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

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Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#51

Post by smrtinsert »

paczki wrote: post #41
a_shovel wrote: post #4

> This is perhaps the central tragedy of fy_iceworld. The game industry benefits from its legacy, but the conditions that spurred its influence no longer exist. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2019 does not offer a freely downloadable level editor for players to make new custom maps, nor does it allow a decentralized network of player-managed multiplayer servers to distribute these custom maps. We can only play what som…

Videogames largely moving away from mapping/modding in general has been such a disappointing thing to me for many years now. I'm still playing Doom and Quake mods to this day and some of the content people put out is incredible. Recently an episode 2 for the Quake mod DWELL released and is of unbelievable quality that we couldn't have even imagined playing back in the 90s. Community servers on the other hand.. those…

The absolute best gaming I've ever done has been on custom servers with highly invested well run admin culture. It is sad to see that gone. This generation has much better single player experiences though, in a insane variety of aesthetics, so maybe that trade off is acceptable.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#52

Post by ziml77 »

LeeroyWasHere wrote: post #46
rcme wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minecraft and Roblox both have creative / extensible outlets built in to them. Both are hugely popular with "the youth."

Exactly what came to mind, everyone in here is operating on old data. They haven't kept up with the current trends.

Amazing that those are "current trends". Minecraft's first beta released 14 years ago (and it was super hyped right from the start). Roblox is even older at 17 years!

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#53

Post by imiric »

rcme wrote: post #36

In online games, there are generally two necessary aspects to "getting good": game knowledge and understanding your opponent. Game knowledge includes game mechanics, which are obviously necessary, but also includes esoteric knowledge like the specific areas in a map that can be exploited just so, or a complex combo with specific spacing in a fight game, etc. Personally, I don't want to spend my limited game time memo…

I generally agree, but the thing with these small maps is that you don't have time to "understand the opponent". Kill times are in the order of seconds, and death comes from every direction. There's no place to hide, strategize, and out think your opponent. In many cases, you can get away with aiming at the enemy's spawn point and rack up a dozen kills in a minute.

At least some CoD maps like Shipment, Shoot House and Rust have a bit more complexity, places to maneuver, and, yes, even camp for a short while. The biggest thrill is always rushing to the top of the tower on Rust, where you feel you have a clear advantage, and conversely, taking revenge on that pesky tower camper.

I haven't played fy_iceworld, but think that boiling that formula down to where there's absolutely no place to hide, removes any strategy at all, and staying alive becomes a matter of luck, rather than skill.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#54

Post by renewiltord »

hackernewds wrote: post #9
a_shovel wrote: post #4

> This is perhaps the central tragedy of fy_iceworld. The game industry benefits from its legacy, but the conditions that spurred its influence no longer exist. Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2019 does not offer a freely downloadable level editor for players to make new custom maps, nor does it allow a decentralized network of player-managed multiplayer servers to distribute these custom maps. We can only play what som…

Remember Counter Strike was not an independent game. It was a mod of Halo. Halo did not offer a downloaded level editor.

And people say ChatGPT bullshits.

I believe Hammer has actually been out for more than 2 decades now. I certainly recall trying to recreate my school as a de map.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#55

Post by damagednoob »

ihalip wrote: post #31

I fondly remember playing fy_iceworld and minor variations of it in netcafes 20 years ago. What made these maps special was that they 1) removed all game strategy - just walk 2 steps to pick up a gun and go fight the enemy, and 2) there were no hiding spots - so no more campers. For kids who could only afford 1 hour of computer time in a netcafe, fy_iceworld was the obvious choice.

I think there are two other factors that people forget.

1) Most (if not all) FPSs at the time (Quake 3, Halflife etc.) had respawn times of around 10s after death. Counter-Strike introduced the idea of rounds which only ended when your whole team died. Scenarios would often play out with 8 players dead watching 2 players camping out the round.

2) IIRC, the default round timer was 5 minutes. This promoted conservative game play which slowed the pace of the game, especially for new players. I stopped playing CS for years but when I came to CS:GO, it was so refreshing that the round timer had been reduced to 3 mins. I spent countless hours being dead watching other people play out rounds.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#56

Post by jamesfinlayson »

hnick wrote: post #40

I also found the linked follow-up article interesting, where the writer tries to find the original author. Including an article comment at the end of the page by someone who claims it was them, with web archive links. Looks somewhat convincing but I doubt we can ever know for sure.

Also, I think his note about all the .wad files is wrong - from memory, you list all the .wad files you want to use in Hammer's configuration menu somewhere and that entire list gets inserted into every map you make, regardless of whether you use it or not.

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#59

Post by feoren »

nerdponx wrote: post #18
plaguepilled wrote: post #8

Custom maps, not arbitrated by the game company, were the best part of the FPS genre.

And Starcraft!

The Tower Defense genre was invented in Starcraft custom maps, all the way back to the popular Starship Troopers maps, then Bunker Defense, and so on. MOBAs were invented in Warcraft 3 custom maps with the original DOTA. It's so clear how beneficial it is to any creative sphere to have those rapid development loops, where you can go from having a cool idea to having random strangers playing it within a few days.

There was another really popular Starcraft custom map (genre, really) called "Commandos" where you had a constant spawn rate of marines and could upgrade them into various things; I always thought that was a super fun mode, but it never materialized into a larger genre like Tower Defense and MOBAs did. I wonder if there's a missed (latent) opportunity there?

Re: The legacy of fy_iceworld, Counter-Strike’s divisive, popular custom map (2020)

#60

Post by Dachande663 »

The creator of de_dust (amongst others), did some great write ups[0] on how and why he made maps like he did. It’s a lost art now everything is squeezed through playtesting and data analysis.

https://www.johnsto.co.uk/design/making-dust2/

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